Trapped into using Trust Power for an ISP

Forums › New Zealand Broadband › Trapped into using Trust Power for an ISP - Not Happy!

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227 posts

Master Geek

#1189665 5-Dec-2014 22:36

Still no call back from WXC.....but if Mr Spark could check that would be cool. Would you want my address on e mail??

I don't want no sugar in it - thank you very much

plambrechtsen

1948 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#1189740 6-Dec-2014 06:07

DickDastardly: Still no call back from WXC.....but if Mr Spark could check that would be cool. Would you want my address on e mail??

Yep... as much detail as you have. Address. Date you want it by. Phone number etc.

DickDastardly

227 posts

Master Geek

#1189742 6-Dec-2014 07:03

Done.

An e mail should be with you now!!

Let me know what you can dig up!

I don't want no sugar in it - thank you very much

DarthKermit

5346 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#1189813 6-Dec-2014 10:48

sbiddle: This so called "problem" (which isn't really a problem IMHO) is only going to grow. The fact Chorus and LFCs aren't legally able to offer tail services unlike xDSL means that that an ISP has to have a handover in every POP to provide services, or use a 3rd party to carry traffic for them.

The days of every ISP being a nationwide one is well and truly over in the UFB world. End of story. This has enabled many local ISPs to offer innovative products and gain good market share in their local communities which is a good thing.

Things will probably improve in the future, but not now that's not the case. There are very likely to be areas such as Kapiti where there will probably never be any real options in the UFB market. Vodafone have something like 70% of the market (so I've been told, it may actually be a little less) with their HFC network meaning that it's really a lost cause for many ISPs to bother with handover into the region as you're all fighting for such a small market. This is why Spark is the only option at present, and seemingly may be the only option for quite some time.

Going back to the issue the OP raised - it shows a level of incompetence from the ISPs concerned if they're willing to sign you up when you're not capable of receiving service due to them not having handovers in that area.

Do you know if there's some kind of map available showing what ISPs can be connected to in a given area?

Whatifthespacekeyhadneverbeeninvented?

sbiddle

30853 posts

Uber Geek

Retired Mod

Trusted

Biddle Corp

Lifetime subscriber

#1189837 6-Dec-2014 11:52

DarthKermit:
sbiddle: This so called "problem" (which isn't really a problem IMHO) is only going to grow. The fact Chorus and LFCs aren't legally able to offer tail services unlike xDSL means that that an ISP has to have a handover in every POP to provide services, or use a 3rd party to carry traffic for them.

The days of every ISP being a nationwide one is well and truly over in the UFB world. End of story. This has enabled many local ISPs to offer innovative products and gain good market share in their local communities which is a good thing.

Things will probably improve in the future, but not now that's not the case. There are very likely to be areas such as Kapiti where there will probably never be any real options in the UFB market. Vodafone have something like 70% of the market (so I've been told, it may actually be a little less) with their HFC network meaning that it's really a lost cause for many ISPs to bother with handover into the region as you're all fighting for such a small market. This is why Spark is the only option at present, and seemingly may be the only option for quite some time.

Going back to the issue the OP raised - it shows a level of incompetence from the ISPs concerned if they're willing to sign you up when you're not capable of receiving service due to them not having handovers in that area.

Do you know if there's some kind of map available showing what ISPs can be connected to in a given area?

The Chorus website shows this for all Chorus areas. I would assume the LFCs probably have something similar.

quickymart

13963 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

#1189891 6-Dec-2014 13:34

There used to be a nationwide map no matter who the provider was that showed the entire country. From memory it was a .govt.nz webpage but I can't recall what it was now

taneb1

517 posts

Ultimate Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Mercury

#1189897 6-Dec-2014 14:15

quickymart: There used to be a nationwide map no matter who the provider was that showed the entire country. From memory it was a .govt.nz webpage but I can't recall what it was now

Are you thinking of this map? http://www.crownfibre.govt.nz/getting-ufb/rollout-timetable/

Any comments made are my personal views and does not represent those of my employer

Quic Broadband

Move to New Zealand's best fibre broadband service (affiliate link). Free setup code: R587125ERQ6VE. Note that to use Quic Broadband you must be comfortable with configuring your own router.

quickymart

13963 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

#1189957 6-Dec-2014 19:52

That looks like it

zespri

414 posts

Ultimate Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#1190337 8-Dec-2014 09:18

Global Mode as you call it is really just a marketing statagy and no where as powerful than going for a service like dns4me.net or unotelly where you can use more services and also more devices (like Chromecasts for example).

Netflix is working on chromecast here with Slingshot global mode. No problem at all.

zespri

414 posts

Ultimate Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#1190341 8-Dec-2014 09:26

sbiddle: The fact Chorus and LFCs aren't legally able to offer tail services unlike xDSL means that that an ISP has to have a handover in every POP to provide services, or use a 3rd party to carry traffic for them.

Can some one explain this to me? What is LFC? What is tail services? What is the difference with xDSL? What is handover and why is it required? And what is POP?
Thank you in advance.

deadlyllama

1264 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#1190354 8-Dec-2014 09:36

zespri:
sbiddle: The fact Chorus and LFCs aren't legally able to offer tail services unlike xDSL means that that an ISP has to have a handover in every POP to provide services, or use a 3rd party to carry traffic for them.

Can some one explain this to me? What is LFC? What is tail services? What is the difference with xDSL? What is handover and why is it required? And what is POP?
Thank you in advance.

To you, the end user, what it all means is that when you call up J Random ISP, and even though there is fibre in your street, they may not be able to offer you service. In the copper world, an ISP could purchase a service from Chorus that terminated all their DSL traffic in one location. In the UFB world, they can't, so they need to have a physical presence in every city they want to sell UFB services.

So you can get service from almost every ISP in Auckland, because it's a big market. But not in New Plymouth. Or Whanganui. Or Kapiti. The list goes on.

There are third parties who can offer a service like Chorus does for DSL -- the 3rd parties have equipment in most UFB areas, and can terminate traffic from those UFB regions in one central location. However to my knowledge none of those 3rd parties [Vibe and NGW, are there others?] have coverage in every UFB area.

plambrechtsen

1948 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#1190356 8-Dec-2014 09:37

zespri:
sbiddle: The fact Chorus and LFCs aren't legally able to offer tail services unlike xDSL means that that an ISP has to have a handover in every POP to provide services, or use a 3rd party to carry traffic for them.

Can some one explain this to me? What is LFC? What is tail services? What is the difference with xDSL? What is handover and why is it required? And what is POP?
Thank you in advance.

LFC = Local Fibre Company. They are NorthPower, UFF, Chorus and Enable. They are the people who physically provide UFB service to your premsis.

A Handover is the physical connection from the LFC to the ISP/RSP (Internet / Retail Service Provider) such as Spark. This is where x hundreds or thousands of customers run over a single large capacity network connection where all customers are aggregated to a single Hand Over Point (HOP) or Point of Presence (POP)

In the xDSL world Chorus was able to offer what they call a Tail Service where if you as a RSP didn't have any interconnection in a particular area they could "Backhaul" the internet connection to where you wanted it to be. Such as if you wanted to provide internet to someone in Dunedin but your RSPs Datacentre was only in Auckland, Chorus would offer at a particular price to take the customers traffic from the Dunedin POP up to Auckland. With UFB the LFCs are no longer able to offer that, so it's up to the RSPs themselves to get connectivity into the POPs.

So with the case of the OP, the POP he lives in is Tauranga, but that is a "UFF" area for UFB. The issue is that the local developer of the sub-division engaged Chorus to do the build in the days before UFB (that was known as BOF or Broadband over Fibre). So now these areas it's up to each RSP to get a handover with Chorus in non-Chorus UFB areas.

The issue there is the customer numbers in those areas are so low that it's hard to justify the cost in getting a Handover.

So currently Spark doesn't have a UFB Handover with Chorus in Tauranga and it seems no one else does either apart from Trustpower.

old3eyes

9120 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#1190361 8-Dec-2014 09:46

plambrechtsen:
zespri:
sbiddle: The fact Chorus and LFCs aren't legally able to offer tail services unlike xDSL means that that an ISP has to have a handover in every POP to provide services, or use a 3rd party to carry traffic for them.

Can some one explain this to me? What is LFC? What is tail services? What is the difference with xDSL? What is handover and why is it required? And what is POP?
Thank you in advance.

LFC = Local Fibre Company. They are NorthPower, UFF, Chorus and Enable. They are the people who physically provide UFB service to your premsis.

A Handover is the physical connection from the LFC to the ISP/RSP (Internet / Retail Service Provider) such as Spark. This is where x hundreds or thousands of customers run over a single large capacity network connection where all customers are aggregated to a single Hand Over Point (HOP) or Point of Presence (POP)

In the xDSL world Chorus was able to offer what they call a Tail Service where if you as a RSP didn't have any interconnection in a particular area they could "Backhaul" the internet connection to where you wanted it to be. Such as if you wanted to provide internet to someone in Dunedin but your RSPs Datacentre was only in Auckland, Chorus would offer at a particular price to take the customers traffic from the Dunedin POP up to Auckland. With UFB the LFCs are no longer able to offer that, so it's up to the RSPs themselves to get connectivity into the POPs.

So with the case of the OP, the POP he lives in is Tauranga, but that is a "UFF" area for UFB. The issue is that the local developer of the sub-division engaged Chorus to do the build in the days before UFB (that was known as BOF or Broadband over Fibre). So now these areas it's up to each RSP to get a handover with Chorus in non-Chorus UFB areas.

The issue there is the customer numbers in those areas are so low that it's hard to justify the cost in getting a Handover.

So currently Spark doesn't have a UFB Handover with Chorus in Tauranga and it seems no one else does either apart from Trustpower.

Any idea when as fiber has just been laid in my street in Tauranga??

Regards,

Old3eyes

plambrechtsen

1948 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#1190364 8-Dec-2014 09:48

old3eyes: Any idea when as fiber has just been laid in my street in Tauranga??

I would say any new fibre in Tauranga would be with UFF and not Chorus. We DO have a handover with UFF and are providing service to a fair number of customers already.

So it's mainly the early adopter / fibre trial areas built with Chorus that are left in no-mans-land such as the OP that have these issues.

Wendy

59 posts

Master Geek

Trusted

#1190470 8-Dec-2014 11:16

plambrechtsen:
So currently Spark doesn't have a UFB Handover with Chorus in Tauranga and it seems no one else does either apart from Trustpower.

And WXC. :)

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