NZHerald running story on shoddy Chorus contractor installation work

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#1586693 5-Jul-2016 20:36

Vodafone/TelstraClear/Saturn have been running cable attached to fences for years and I don't recall ever seeing a complaint on here.

sbiddle

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#1586695 5-Jul-2016 20:38

Darren0:

Cbfd: I do design for a certain LFC and can understand why chorus do the staple along fence option, as it's an easier option and a cheaper option, I would hate to see the uproar and wait times for installs to happen if installs had to go underground the wait would almost be 3-4 times longer then it already is, and can see a lot of installs going ahead due to cutting of driveways etc for locations of services b3forw drilling aND thrusting happen ..

I'm quite happy a certain LFC doesn't do staples along the fence, from the customer perspective being told it's either going to be underground with near-zero visible impact or overhead alongside power is quite good. Staples are an atrocious option looking forward. Maybe I want to replace my fence because the wood is old? Well damn, looks like my fibre is going to be screwed.

Overhead is fraught with problems, primarily access to power poles if the lead-in isn't fed from a Chorus pole. Things that weren't an issue in the copper days such as aerial trespass are also now not allowed.

littleheaven

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#1586792 5-Jul-2016 21:20

When they installed at my sister's place they did a great job. Blew the fibre up the underground pipe that carried her copper. She's one house back from the street but it was all done without fuss, no exposed cables anywhere. If my services are all already underground can I expect them to do the same at my place?

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#1586797 5-Jul-2016 21:30

My house is 30m back from the road, and 1/3 of that is expensive exposed aggregate concrete.

Another 1/3 is asphalt, and the other 1/3 is dirt.

If they cant go through existing underground conduits, I want to be able to cancel the install.

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#1586820 5-Jul-2016 21:57

I'm kinda glad mine was aerial, it was all relatively easy. Hate to think what it would be like if I lived down a very long driveway.

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#1586821 5-Jul-2016 22:01

sbiddle:

Vodafone/TelstraClear/Saturn have been running cable attached to fences for years and I don't recall ever seeing a complaint on here.

I guess many of them predated GKZ becoming popular

I've seen heaps of these average to poor installs in Auckland. Ponsonby and Mt Eden had a mix of awful as well as good. Many I'm seeing in Ellerslie are just really awful, a lot like the one in the NZHerald article.

I wonder some of the overheads are going to look in my street - and they will ALL be overhead - especially when the cross the street and have to span a 2nd pole.... My TelstraClear cable has held up for 11 years, I dare say the Telecom copper pair (singular) is in pretty sh*te state.

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#1586838 5-Jul-2016 22:41

sbiddle:
Vodafone/TelstraClear/Saturn have been running cable attached to fences for years and I don't recall ever seeing a complaint on here.

And look at the state of that network. Visually it is the most awful thing you see around Wellington - it's even worse than the Wellington sign!!

Telecom/Chorus copper was quite often put on fences for a temporary fix to a damaged underground but then was just left as permanent. Now all those 'temporary' leads are buggered from being exposed for so long even though they were done with 049 (or equivalent) outdoor/underground. Yea sure this new microduct is rugged, UV shielded etc but really how long will it last. Also, it's the joints and things that tend to fail. Although I must admit that joints shouldn't really be an issue as the fibre itself isn't jointed 'midspan'. But if a microduct joint fails it exposes the fibre cable.

As for the argument of 'it will take too long to trench', that just shows the poor thought put in to the rollout. Like did someone actually sit down and go 'fibre to the home? Ah sweet that'll be easy. Should knock it out fairly quick'. Why didn't we start training guys the moment the project was thought up. And when the rollouts happen, pump some major labour in to it!

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Darren0

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#1586839 5-Jul-2016 22:45

sbiddle:

Darren0:

Cbfd: I do design for a certain LFC and can understand why chorus do the staple along fence option, as it's an easier option and a cheaper option, I would hate to see the uproar and wait times for installs to happen if installs had to go underground the wait would almost be 3-4 times longer then it already is, and can see a lot of installs going ahead due to cutting of driveways etc for locations of services b3forw drilling aND thrusting happen ..

I'm quite happy a certain LFC doesn't do staples along the fence, from the customer perspective being told it's either going to be underground with near-zero visible impact or overhead alongside power is quite good. Staples are an atrocious option looking forward. Maybe I want to replace my fence because the wood is old? Well damn, looks like my fibre is going to be screwed.

Overhead is fraught with problems, primarily access to power poles if the lead-in isn't fed from a Chorus pole. Things that weren't an issue in the copper days such as aerial trespass are also now not allowed.

I guess that's not a problem I'm exposed to in Hamilton, thankfully. I have seen an order require a replacement pole, but even that capped at a delay of 12 weeks.

kiwifidget:

My house is 30m back from the road, and 1/3 of that is expensive exposed aggregate concrete.

Another 1/3 is asphalt, and the other 1/3 is dirt.

If they cant go through existing underground conduits, I want to be able to cancel the install.

You can, have every right to and for any reason. Civil issue concerns is definitely a valid one.

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#1586844 5-Jul-2016 23:21

littleheaven:

When they installed at my sister's place they did a great job. Blew the fibre up the underground pipe that carried her copper. She's one house back from the street but it was all done without fuss, no exposed cables anywhere. If my services are all already underground can I expect them to do the same at my place?

The subbie will attempt to use an existing telecommunications conduit where possible.

BTW, when is your street scheduled to get UFB?

mattwnz

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#1586845 5-Jul-2016 23:25

sbiddle:

Vodafone/TelstraClear/Saturn have been running cable attached to fences for years and I don't recall ever seeing a complaint on here.

Actually there have been heaps of complaints about the visual impact of Saturn / Telstra cables ever since they installed them. They created thick heavy masses above the road on power poles, and there were numerous articles written about them in the mainstream news. They probably wouldn't be able to do that these days. The installs which didn't have a power line, that I am aware of, were trenched.

To install cheaply like they appear to be doing in some areas, will essentially be a deferred cost for future generations. You just have to look at other infrstructure in NZ which is now in need of replacing, which was luckily built quite well. But many councils are now in need of replacing sewage infrastructure and piping etc, and it is projected to cost tax and rate payers 100s of billions. So the UFB install around NZ is tiny compared to that.

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#1586884 6-Jul-2016 07:56

I'll be doing as much of my install my self as I can to avoid issues.

I don't think people appreciate the scale of this roll-out. If we want top quality installs then we need top quality installers of which there are only so many. So how about we just slow the whole thing down and do it over say 25 years (not 10-12). That way we can ensure top quality every step of the way.

I'm guessing the thread might be even longer when people check the Chorus map to find their street is scheduled for 2025.

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sbiddle

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#1586889 6-Jul-2016 08:07

mattwnz:

sbiddle:

Vodafone/TelstraClear/Saturn have been running cable attached to fences for years and I don't recall ever seeing a complaint on here.

Actually there have been heaps of complaints about the visual impact of Saturn / Telstra cables ever since they installed them. They created thick heavy masses above the road on power poles, and there were numerous articles written about them in the mainstream news. They probably wouldn't be able to do that these days. The installs which didn't have a power line, that I am aware of, were trenched.

I don't mean the network build - I simply meant customer installs.

Having been to Whangarei and New Plymouth in the last year I find the UFB networks there just as as ugly visually as the HFC network in most parts of Wellington.

The irony still is that it was Vector in part (along with the hate campaign backed by the NZ Herald) that stopped the HFC build in Auckland going ahead. Had Vector won the UFB build for Auckland it would have been an overhead network.

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#1586908 6-Jul-2016 08:24

mcraenz:

I'll be doing as much of my install my self as I can to avoid issues.

I don't think people appreciate the scale of this roll-out. If we want top quality installs then we need top quality installers of which there are only so many. So how about we just slow the whole thing down and do it over say 25 years (not 10-12). That way we can ensure top quality every step of the way.

I'm guessing the thread might be even longer when people check the Chorus map to find their street is scheduled for 2025.

But its the basic stuff that the installers cant get right, some of the worst stuff is that they cant be bothered to route the cable

along a proper path and instead string it across as one would a temporary cable, in a lot of cases the same time and materials would be used.

It also increases the time when they have to come out repeated times to do the job that should have been done on the first visit.

I have had Chorus "Engineers" sign off a site where there were two ends of the fibre hanging in midair NOT joined

How you can sign something off as operational when a basic check of the lights on the ONT would tell you its not working...

But I guess if everyone is ok with companies doing just enough to get a connection, what can one say to the future of our industry

mcraenz

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#1586912 6-Jul-2016 08:33

daparrot:

mcraenz:

I'll be doing as much of my install my self as I can to avoid issues.

I don't think people appreciate the scale of this roll-out. If we want top quality installs then we need top quality installers of which there are only so many. So how about we just slow the whole thing down and do it over say 25 years (not 10-12). That way we can ensure top quality every step of the way.

I'm guessing the thread might be even longer when people check the Chorus map to find their street is scheduled for 2025.

But its the basic stuff that the installers cant get right, some of the worst stuff is that they cant be bothered to route the cable

along a proper path and instead string it across as one would a temporary cable, in a lot of cases the same time and materials would be used.

It also increases the time when they have to come out repeated times to do the job that should have been done on the first visit.

I have had Chorus "Engineers" sign off a site where there were two ends of the fibre hanging in midair NOT joined

How you can sign something off as operational when a basic check of the lights on the ONT would tell you its not working...

But I guess if everyone is ok with companies doing just enough to get a connection, what can one say to the future of our industry

As I said - "If we want top quality installs then we need top quality installers of which there are only so many."

I'm not ok with it and think we should be pushing back as much as possible but the facts are the facts and I personally don't want to wait for another 5 years. I'd rather have a shoddy install now than a great install in 5 years time. I think the underlying infrastructure is very good and these issues are just at the last mile and that will be sorted out over the coming years. Not great, but it's ok. Don't let the great be the enemy of the good!

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andrew027

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#1586919 6-Jul-2016 08:51

I don't want to derail the thread, but like @littleheaven it has got me thinking about my own install, when fibre is run in my street (due in December).

I also have an exposed aggregate concrete driveway that I'd prefer not to slice. The current copper line comes out of the ground and connects to the ETP on an exterior wall, so I'm assuming there is already some conduit laid under the drive that the copper runs through, and hopefully this can be used for the fibre.

But the fibre has to run all the way to the ONT, right? The ETP is on the outside right side of the garage, and I have a "communications cabinet" with a patch panel and power on inside left side of the garage. This cabinet would be my preferred location for the ONT, but that would mean extending the fibre from the ETP, up the left wall, over the ceiling and down the right wall to the cabinet. Obviouly there's a connection there now, but it's all behind the gib.

Will they just use the existing connection as a draw wire to extend the fibre from one side of the garage to the other, or is it not that simple?

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