Fry for better broadband, any time now...

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#584385 21-Feb-2012 10:34

The local market is horribly fragmented due to caps and pay-more-for-a-faster-connection type plans.

The solutions are not pretty either. One solution is to mandate a minimum service level for ISPs. Then you have to add the lines companies - mostly Telecom. Pushing that cost onto them will require they have to get creative in providing services and inter-agreements to recover that cost.

This will increase efficiency and demand for some services like HD medical and specialist consultations, live concerts, backup, cloud computing, and will accelerate falling demand for others like video rental & sky content you are not interested in.

IMHO it would be disruptive, but not an instant change at all.

My feeling is UFB will move us towards this environment significantly, but the market will remain fragmented.

crackrdbycracku

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#584386 21-Feb-2012 10:41

freitasm:
crackrdbycracku: Blu-Ray quality is, I think, about 8GB per movie. So, a 100GB plus plan isn't looking so overboard anymore.

That's because you are still thinking on downloading the Bluray, dare I say, by illegal means. A legal iTunes HD movie is about 2.2 GB.

Sorry if I wasn't being clear. I wouldn't download anything I didn't have to which was 8 GB and I don't download illegally.

TV series are now filmed in HD, download one of those from iTunes and you are talking about a massive amount of data.

My point was that when you start wanting to download HD video then big 100 GB caps don't look so big anymore.

Didn't anybody tell you I was a hacker?

kiwiscoota

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#584392 21-Feb-2012 10:46

I had a sort of laugh when I read his complaints, I'm currently having major speed issues with my ISP which are yet to be resolved (the modem by the way shows me being connected at 5930/874kbps)

freitasm

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#584394 21-Feb-2012 10:48

kiwiscoota: I had a sort of laugh when I read his complaints, I'm currently having major speed issues with my ISP which are yet to be resolved (the modem by the way shows me being connected at 5930/874kbps)

Check the wiring.

stevenz

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#584408 21-Feb-2012 11:16

crackrdbycracku: Blu-Ray quality is, I think, about 8GB per movie. So, a 100GB plus plan isn't looking so overboard anymore.

Chuck in VOIP, Skype and gaming and those GBs start to add up.

Personally, I think it all comes movie rights. My solution, a law change stating if you have the rights in the US you have the rights here. The artist gets paid and we get movies.

Sky gets to cry salty, salty tears. And sport of course.

VoIP and Skype both use relatively insignificant amounts of data.

Maximum bitrate of a BluRay is 40Mbps. (Roughly 4x the max of a DVD and using far superior AV codecs)

A ~100minute movie is ~6000 seconds, x 40 = 240000 Mbit = ~30,000 MB = ~30GB.

Most movies won't use maximum bitrate of course, but expect at least 10GB for an average length movie depending on what audio tracks are embedded.

An excellent quality h.264 encoding can be had from "only" around 5Mbps, around 4GB filesize with AC3 audio embedded.

"HD" iTunes videos are around the 4Mbps mark, perfectly acceptable quality. Given the high cost, I'd much rather pop down the video store and hire it and watch it on my terms though.

@KnightNZ

StevieT

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#584410 21-Feb-2012 11:26

I am personally sick of the data allowance plans. 40GB is very limiting. Even though we CAN go over it, it is costly. I mean, people are backing up data to web servers. I did so, and 5GB got chewed up. We ended up going over our limit that month.

I remember back in 2005 looking at Paradise Broadband plans, and you were offered national data seperate from international data. That really put me off getting broadband back then, plus the set-up fees are a turn off. Went for Telecom internet in 2006. Turned out to be rubbish, constantly disconnecting. Went to TelstraClear InHome cable the same year, and been with them ever since.

NZ broadband should have been sorted out years before now. We're only working on it now. It is disgusting

freitasm

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#584421 21-Feb-2012 11:36

From my blog post today:

- I don't like data caps either.
- Data cap is a symptom. They are not the problem.
- Find the root cause to fix the problem then data caps go away.
- Data caps will disappear when the roadblock is removed.

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networkn

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#584423 21-Feb-2012 11:40

StevieT: I think you are being a little one sided. There are a lot of providers who have plans above 40GB.

I think you need to own your own part in this. If you don't understand that uploading a large chunk of data will use 5GB then it's not fair to complain your provider didn't anticipate your change in pattern! It's not really that much different from complaining that you bought a car for around town driving and then got a job in Hamilton and had to drive so much more and now the running costs are higher, complaining the car dealer didn't anticipate it. YOUR needs have changed and you didn't anticipate it. It's easy, either get a bigger plan or move to a provider that offers more cost effective solutions to your issue.

stevenz

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#584426 21-Feb-2012 11:43

StevieT: I am personally sick of the data allowance plans. 40GB is very limiting. Even though we CAN go over it, it is costly. I mean, people are backing up data to web servers. I did so, and 5GB got chewed up. We ended up going over our limit that month.

I'd much rather back my data up to an external drive. They're cheap, fast and if the internet is down I can still get at my data.

The only time I've ever uploaded any significant amount of data (more than 1GB) would be when I synced my music to GoogleMusic. If that goes away, I don't really care as that's what daily backups are for.

The amount of people who would use >40GB would be a pretty small percentage of the consumer-market I would've thought.

@KnightNZ

codyc1515

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#584431 21-Feb-2012 11:55

Why not do something similar to how Amazon AWS does for their EC2 services? Traffic on the same network is free, data per gb from 0GB to 10GB is 10c/GB, data from 10GB to 30GB is 0.16c/GB, etc., with a flat fee per month charge too.

dclegg

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#584441 21-Feb-2012 12:05

stevenz:

The amount of people who would use >40GB would be a pretty small percentage of the consumer-market I would've thought.

I think thats changing, with the amount of Internet connected devices that infiltrate our lives these days. FI, our usage jumped up a LOT around Christmas, when both my daughters got iPod Touches as gifts. This is because they essentially use them as Internet enabled TVs by sitting in their rooms streaming YouTube content. A less tech savvy consumer may not be aware of the effect that is having on their usage.

And from a personal standpoint, we feel very constrained by our 60GB data cap. We have an Apple TV, which is great for streaming hired movies, but every time we do so we are incredibly mindful of the impact this is having on our data allowance.

crackrdbycracku

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#584443 21-Feb-2012 12:08

To be honest I think the problem is that the last company to lay new cable was Saturn in the 90's and they only did Wellington and not all of that.

Not many people on here complain about TelstraClear cable, I have it and I don't complain. But even the TelstraGuy said "This is 1990's technology, it is better than what everybody else has but it is still almost 20 years old".

I get it. Laying new cable means digging up streets and roads, this cost massive amounts of money and the NZ market is small so making that money back takes a long time.

Saturn tried to sell cable TV, it wasn't bad looking back. The basic package was similar to what you get with Sky now and the movies were $5, but at scheduled times which was a pain. I think what killed it was that it was before it's time and they weren't selling what we now call broadband.

The UFB network will, hopefully, give us the local infrastructure. Pacific Fiber will, hopefully, give us international competition. Someone will hopefully sort out the rights issue. But making the money back from the small NZ market isn't going to be easy for anybody.

Didn't anybody tell you I was a hacker?

Behodar

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#584444 21-Feb-2012 12:09

codyc1515: Why not do something similar to how Amazon AWS does for their EC2 services? Traffic on the same network is free, data per gb from 0GB to 10GB is 10c/GB, data from 10GB to 30GB is 0.16c/GB, etc., with a flat fee per month charge too.

Does it really get significantly cheaper per "block" or is that a typo? If it's accurate then diminishing returns would almost make it more sensible to offer flat rate.

networkn

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#584445 21-Feb-2012 12:10

dclegg: It's not that I don't understand what you are saying, having said that, it's not much different than not being happy when your fuel bill is higher when you travel more. There are other options available to you, but it's user pays. The nice thing about Internet is the more you use the cheaper it gets, unlike petrol!

It's optional for you to use more and more internet, have AppleTV, they all have a benefit to you. Why should the ISP absorb the costs because your requirements are changing? All those devices are using more power, but you didn't mention that.

codyc1515

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#584449 21-Feb-2012 12:13

Behodar:
codyc1515: Why not do something similar to how Amazon AWS does for their EC2 services? Traffic on the same network is free, data per gb from 0GB to 10GB is 10c/GB, data from 10GB to 30GB is 0.16c/GB, etc., with a flat fee per month charge too.

Does it really get significantly cheaper per "block" or is that a typo? If it's accurate then diminishing returns would almost make it more sensible to offer flat rate.

It was example pricing but gives the general idea. Check it out here (you have to scroll down a little): http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/#pricing

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