Are my slow speeds because of my exchange or my home wiring?

Forums › New Zealand Broadband › Are my slow speeds because of my exchange or my home wiring?

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#1279197 8-Apr-2015 18:35

The map would be even less accurate if it was showing "usable speeds" as those can vary greatly, depending on time of day, load on the network/congestion, number of users, plans, distance to exchange...the list goes on...

Gractus

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#1279201 8-Apr-2015 19:00

hotrok: 1. Chorus maps do not tell the whole picture, I discussed this in the past on another topic Chorus mas are lies!. It does say greater than 5mb and it is possible to get this if everyone else is on holiday!

2. If fibre runs past your cabinet and it sounds like you have an ASAM, the good news is the cost to upgrade is not as high in most cases 40-50k but you will need to confirm this (I think ChorusNZ is the liason for this on Geekzone). This will give you ADSL2 and if you live close enough to the cabnet VDSL. (600-800m rural ).

3. Further up I gave you a link if you want your council to try and get funding, this is the way I have currently gone as I couldn't get locals to chip in to get the cabinet done (about 50 houses in my case). There is a link here how a small local West Coast community banded together to get there cabinet upgraded. https://www.chorus.co.nz/rural-broadband-initiative/working-together/okarito

4 I wish you the best of luck with this!! Unfortunately most people on here give you the cold hard facts but there are always glimmers of hope!

Yeah, I'm heading to a community board meeting on Friday to find out what's possible. Hopefully someone decides we're worth 40k.

Gractus

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#1279206 8-Apr-2015 19:11

quickymart: The map would be even less accurate if it was showing "usable speeds" as those can vary greatly, depending on time of day, load on the network/congestion, number of users, plans, distance to exchange...the list goes on...

I guess it would be difficult to get accurate usable speeds. Whatever the case, I was trying to make the point that the maps aren't very accurate in terms of usable speeds, not that the maps should be more accurate. This is more of a tangent from when johnr said the map reflected the speeds I'm getting.

Jase2985

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#1279258 8-Apr-2015 20:06

if you are going to go in and talk numbers at your meeting you need to actually get a quote or a figure from the horses mouth not off an internet forum.

cause if you say 40k and they agree and it comes back as 80k your going to look like a right a$$.

Aredwood

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#1279356 8-Apr-2015 22:36

Gractus:
Talkiet: It wasn't my understanding that the 1, 5, 10, 20 Mbps had anything to do with expected L3 throughput, but instead referred to the likely xDSL sync speeds. In that sense, the map is accurate in your case isn't it? It says higher that 5Mbps and you're getting 7.6?

Putting aside what you want and what people expect, it's completely unreasonable to hold Chorus to deliver L3 throughput guarantees when they don't have control over the operation or investment on parts of the network required to deliver L3 services.

Cheers - N

From what I understand the issue is that the backhaul for the cabinet is not sufficient for the number of users it services. If a single user can saturate the connection that's shared between 60 or however many households I would think the sync speed is irrelevant. Coming back to the water analogy, if I install a water supply to a small town consisting of a small garden hose that can handle 5L/second which is then split that up into 1m diameter pipes that could handle 10000L/second going to each house, it would be pointless for me to claim the supply to each house is 10000L/second since there is no way you'll ever get that much water. I feel like the map should show what the usable speeds are, not the sync speed. Unless backhaul is L3 I'd say it's probably not the ISPs fault.

When the conklin based ADSL cabinets were installed. Approx 95% of connections were limited to 128k/128k. Meaning 2mbit was fine for 16 connections. Because the back haul is normally provided via copper lines. It allowed lots of rural areas to get ADSL. The alternative would have been even slower dial up. So you have the equivalent of a narrow winding road. That was fine for light traffic. But now a motorway is required to handle the increase in traffic.

Aredwood

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#1279357 8-Apr-2015 22:36

Gractus:
Talkiet: It wasn't my understanding that the 1, 5, 10, 20 Mbps had anything to do with expected L3 throughput, but instead referred to the likely xDSL sync speeds. In that sense, the map is accurate in your case isn't it? It says higher that 5Mbps and you're getting 7.6?

Putting aside what you want and what people expect, it's completely unreasonable to hold Chorus to deliver L3 throughput guarantees when they don't have control over the operation or investment on parts of the network required to deliver L3 services.

Cheers - N

From what I understand the issue is that the backhaul for the cabinet is not sufficient for the number of users it services. If a single user can saturate the connection that's shared between 60 or however many households I would think the sync speed is irrelevant. Coming back to the water analogy, if I install a water supply to a small town consisting of a small garden hose that can handle 5L/second which is then split that up into 1m diameter pipes that could handle 10000L/second going to each house, it would be pointless for me to claim the supply to each house is 10000L/second since there is no way you'll ever get that much water. I feel like the map should show what the usable speeds are, not the sync speed. Unless backhaul is L3 I'd say it's probably not the ISPs fault.

Gractus

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#1279374 8-Apr-2015 23:04

Jase2985: if you are going to go in and talk numbers at your meeting you need to actually get a quote or a figure from the horses mouth not off an internet forum.

cause if you say 40k and they agree and it comes back as 80k your going to look like a right a$$.

Haha, thanks for your concern, I asked ChorusNZ on the geekzone forums and they said the average cost is about $42,000. I don't actually intend to get the community board to pay for it, I doubt I would be able to get enough residents interested to pay for it out of their own pockets. My intention was to ask the local council to submit a RBI extension request form to the government through the community board. If that fails there is a slim chance that there will actually be enough interest to pay for it ourselves. If both fail I'm not here most of the year anyway, I'm at uni most of the time. I just know a lot of my neighbours complain about it and it sucks that I can't do all that much online when I'm back for the holidays.

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michaelmurfy

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#1279378 8-Apr-2015 23:21

See the following famous Geekzone threads for more instead of starting a new thread with the same information.

Petition for better broadband in Outram (warning, this thread is cringe-worthy): http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?topicid=147241
Problems with Kirwee exchange: http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=49&topicid=151837\

There are many other places deserving of faster broadband (like Kirwee) - my parents are on an ASAM just like yours (not quite as congested however) just south of Wakefield in Foxhill with a 2 year waiting list to get on, these are the cabinets that need upgrading as they don't have enough capacity to handle the amount of connections (people have to wait for somebody to disconnect), if you're on an ASAM with no waiting list then as far as Chorus are concerned it isn't being utilised to the same degree as one with a waiting list.

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quickymart

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#1279393 9-Apr-2015 05:35

Ah, the famous Outram thread. I bet to this day Tim still thinks we're all wrong and he deserves his fibre connection at $0 cost.

Gractus

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#1279546 9-Apr-2015 11:35

michaelmurfy: See the following famous Geekzone threads for more instead of starting a new thread with the same information.

Petition for better broadband in Outram (warning, this thread is cringe-worthy): http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?topicid=147241
Problems with Kirwee exchange: http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=49&topicid=151837\

There are many other places deserving of faster broadband (like Kirwee) - my parents are on an ASAM just like yours (not quite as congested however) just south of Wakefield in Foxhill with a 2 year waiting list to get on, these are the cabinets that need upgrading as they don't have enough capacity to handle the amount of connections (people have to wait for somebody to disconnect), if you're on an ASAM with no waiting list then as far as Chorus are concerned it isn't being utilised to the same degree as one with a waiting list.

I would have thought Chorus might want to upgrade any cabinet that has users waiting to connect, I'm not sure how that would be a bad business decision, since it would make them more money not just improve the experience for existing users. So I wouldn't think that funding for that upgrade would need to come out of the government fund, I thought the reason the governement funds existed was for upgrades that would normally lose Chorus money. I'm not sure who decides which requests for RBI extension get fulfilled. Either way, I doubt my town would get funded before another that had a more urgent need for an upgrade.

Gractus

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#1279547 9-Apr-2015 11:37

quickymart: Ah, the famous Outram thread. I bet to this day Tim still thinks we're all wrong and he deserves his fibre connection at $0 cost.

I hope I'm not making the same impression as Tim.

Talkiet

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#1279559 9-Apr-2015 12:10

Gractus:
michaelmurfy: See the following famous Geekzone threads for more instead of starting a new thread with the same information.

Petition for better broadband in Outram (warning, this thread is cringe-worthy): http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?topicid=147241
Problems with Kirwee exchange: http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=49&topicid=151837\

There are many other places deserving of faster broadband (like Kirwee) - my parents are on an ASAM just like yours (not quite as congested however) just south of Wakefield in Foxhill with a 2 year waiting list to get on, these are the cabinets that need upgrading as they don't have enough capacity to handle the amount of connections (people have to wait for somebody to disconnect), if you're on an ASAM with no waiting list then as far as Chorus are concerned it isn't being utilised to the same degree as one with a waiting list.

I would have thought Chorus might want to upgrade any cabinet that has users waiting to connect, I'm not sure how that would be a bad business decision, since it would make them more money not just improve the experience for existing users. So I wouldn't think that funding for that upgrade would need to come out of the government fund, I thought the reason the governement funds existed was for upgrades that would normally lose Chorus money. I'm not sure who decides which requests for RBI extension get fulfilled. Either way, I doubt my town would get funded before another that had a more urgent need for an upgrade.

I'm not involved with Chorus or physical builds in any way, but as to your specific question "I would have thought Chorus might want to upgrade any cabinet that has users waiting to connect, I'm not sure how that would be a bad business decision"

Consider that an upgrade can cost lots of money, even 6 figures in many cases I believe. Now if it's an area with very few users in the footprint, how long do you think it will take Chorus to actually recoup that investment? I'm not going to do that maths for you, but there are many cases where they will never make the money back.

So there are cases where it will be a bad business decision. Of course there are other factors but on a pure cost/benefit basis, many times the upgrades won't be justified.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

johnr

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#1279563 9-Apr-2015 12:20

Gractus:
quickymart: Ah, the famous Outram thread. I bet to this day Tim still thinks we're all wrong and he deserves his fibre connection at $0 cost.

I hope I'm not making the same impression as Tim.

Not at all

Gractus

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#1279590 9-Apr-2015 13:01

Talkiet:
Gractus:
michaelmurfy: See the following famous Geekzone threads for more instead of starting a new thread with the same information.

Petition for better broadband in Outram (warning, this thread is cringe-worthy): http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?topicid=147241
Problems with Kirwee exchange: http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=49&topicid=151837\

There are many other places deserving of faster broadband (like Kirwee) - my parents are on an ASAM just like yours (not quite as congested however) just south of Wakefield in Foxhill with a 2 year waiting list to get on, these are the cabinets that need upgrading as they don't have enough capacity to handle the amount of connections (people have to wait for somebody to disconnect), if you're on an ASAM with no waiting list then as far as Chorus are concerned it isn't being utilised to the same degree as one with a waiting list.

I would have thought Chorus might want to upgrade any cabinet that has users waiting to connect, I'm not sure how that would be a bad business decision, since it would make them more money not just improve the experience for existing users. So I wouldn't think that funding for that upgrade would need to come out of the government fund, I thought the reason the governement funds existed was for upgrades that would normally lose Chorus money. I'm not sure who decides which requests for RBI extension get fulfilled. Either way, I doubt my town would get funded before another that had a more urgent need for an upgrade.

I'm not involved with Chorus or physical builds in any way, but as to your specific question "I would have thought Chorus might want to upgrade any cabinet that has users waiting to connect, I'm not sure how that would be a bad business decision"

Consider that an upgrade can cost lots of money, even 6 figures in many cases I believe. Now if it's an area with very few users in the footprint, how long do you think it will take Chorus to actually recoup that investment? I'm not going to do that maths for you, but there are many cases where they will never make the money back.

So there are cases where it will be a bad business decision. Of course there are other factors but on a pure cost/benefit basis, many times the upgrades won't be justified.

Cheers - N

My understanding was that there were not enough connections to go around, so the ASAM had every possible connection used. If that's the case and there are other households waiting for a someone to give up their connection so they can get a chance to get connected, I don't know how an upgrade wouldn't be worth it, clearly there must be enough demand, since there is a waiting list to get connected. I can understand it not being worth it when there are 10 out a possible 100 connections being utilised but if they're sitting there with 120/100 surely that would be worth it. Unless the smallest upgrade possible is going to get them to 120/200 or something like that. The numbers I used are made up, I don't know how many connections an ASAM can handle.

webwat

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#1279777 9-Apr-2015 16:05

There are different size nodes for different requirements, but apart from the electronics of swapping out an ASAM for a newer fibre-fed ISAM there is also lots of expensive labour involved in connecting everything and installing the fibre.

The ASAMs have more 2M "E1" links than the Conklins and take the same footprint in a cabinet, but also connect many more users. Adding the fibre uplinks would still involve finding space for the new fibre tray and pipes etc going into the cabinet too. I can't see it being a simple upgrade at all.

In the mean time, your line sounded like it didn't have the most reliable speed so you could sort that out while waiting. Best solution is to install a master filter where the line goes into the house, and run a new cable from there to a new dedicated outlet for your modem.

Time to find a new industry!

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