RBI launch prices

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191 posts

Master Geek

#585623 23-Feb-2012 11:27

tdgeek:
djrm:
tdgeek:
djrm: "Yes thats expensive, but we are talking about people in the middle of nowhere... "

Actually some of these areas are very close to Auckland CBD - less than 25kms from the CBD. They are not in the middle of nowhere but have suffered from years of neglect by in large Telecom and Chorus.

The point is not that this is mobile 3G and therefore its expensive, the point is that the RBI said that the prices had to be comparable with urban which they are clearly not!

Interesting Q&A from the MED site. Also indicates that Vodafone are recieving public grants as I said before.

http://www.med.govt.nz/sectors-industries/technology-communication/pdf-docs-library/broadband-policy/RBI-Q-and-A-for-Industry.pdf

The $90 for 10Gb is not dissimilar to current BB plans. There is an added cost to create RBI, so not surprising it is more expensive. The key issue is that there are few users to recover costs, in comparison to a land based BB expansion.

Not dissimilar??? For $90 dollars urban fixed line broadband get a whopping 20Gb, thats double, how in the world is that similar? Also add in that they have an install for$100 butt in many cases free and a fixed phone line that will still work when there is a power cut. Face it Vodafone are taking rural users for a ride and also taking the NZ tax payers for a ride when accepting the grants.

Geez. Its only 10Gb more. Don't play the numbers game. You get many variations between providers and plans, this is just another within a similar range.

This is a 3G connection, that is now available rurally after a large spend. The number of users is very limited, as off course where a new or modified tower is, with a new land fibre connerction to it, it won't have 20,000 farners nearby. So, high cost, low revenue. If this was a case of user pays, it would be a very very large real cost I imagine. So the rural user gets a real product at a artificially lower cost, so pretty good I'd say.

If you wanted to play the numbers game, compare these prices to Mobile Broadband as that is what this is, and even then, after spending money to provide service a low customer number.

Its a bit hard to argue a topic that is in essence about numbers without playing a numbers game, as you put it. Its funny how we have debates about too low a data cap and then you argue the opposite in this case. With more and more users using streaming and live tv etc 10GB is just not going to cut it. I have just finished reading an article about At&T cutting their data cap to 150GB per month. The journalist reckoned that his family come close at 130GB in using Netflix, XBox, PS3 etc. Now I know we don't have netflix but we are starting to stream on TVNZ, iSky etc.

You also seem intent on non provision of the farming community. A community that provides a very large chunk of this countries GDP, I think deserve to be treated better in terms of broadband provision.

I suppose what I am really saying is"just where have the goverment grants gone?" as they don't seem to be pushing the prices down of install, monthly costs etc.

tdgeek

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#585641 23-Feb-2012 12:03

True, numbers are the issue here, but you need to compare apples with apples. I could say that as these are mobile broadband connections effectively, they represent good prices. Compared to land based broadband it is more expensive but it is not hugely more expensive.

No, I don't forego the rural community's desire for better and faster broadband. If the desire or need was for broadband that is faster and cheaper than the urban community, then the Govt needs to add a lot more money.

What my point is, is that money has been invested to provide a broadband service where it is very difficult and very costly to provide, to a low population density. If it was user pays, I'd guess it would be amazingly more expensive. But it is a bit more than land based, and less than current MBB plans, so on first looks, it looks fair, given the cost to provide/divided by the number of users.

I agree that higher caps would be ideal, although Mauricio advised of some options there. I'd have to assume that there is a reason why Voda is not providing higher caps, as in 20Gb and 40Gb, I have no idea on that.

djrm

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Master Geek

#585644 23-Feb-2012 12:15

You have to get away from thinking it is just another mobile broadband service and start recognising that the NZ Goverment gave the contract for rural broadband to Telecom and Vodafone for an equitable service in terms of speed and cost.

Even with the extra cost for extra GB it is still not comparable and needs fixing. I can't but help think that the MED have given the contract out to the wrong people, I think a boost to the wifi networks would have been a better step forward.

tdgeek

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#585649 23-Feb-2012 12:26

djrm: You have to get away from thinking it is just another mobile broadband service and start recognising that the NZ Goverment gave the contract for rural broadband to Telecom and Vodafone for an equitable service in terms of speed and cost.

Even with the extra cost for extra GB it is still not comparable and needs fixing. I can't but help think that the MED have given the contract out to the wrong people, I think a boost to the wifi networks would have been a better step forward.

I hear what you are saying, and note also that I'm not trying to argue for the sake of arguing. Just wanted to note that.

If a real and equitable service was to be provided, and one that equates to land based, then it stands to reason to make it all land based. But it isn't due to extreme cost. Next, if the infrastructure costs are too high, which makes the customer prices too high, then the Govt perhaps needs to subsidise that?

I don't really see how wifi networks will have been a better option. To get the extension to the rural landscape, you still need to get fast internet access out there, and that's provided by fibre optic cable, and then to Voda's towers.

I feel that if taking UFB by land to the rural sector was possible, thats what the Govt would have gone for?

freitasm

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#585676 23-Feb-2012 13:08

This is the official reply from Vodafone regarding the caps and the extra blocks pricing... Note this is not in their website:

Vodafone will shortly be introducing a redirect step to our RBI wireless broadband solution. When a customer reaches the end of their data bundle they will be stopped and taken to a web page which will offer them the option to buy another bundle of data - 5GB for $20, or continue to use their broadband on overage and pay the 3c per whole MB.

A customer may choose to pay overage if there is only a couple of days left in the month. This will ensure they never pay more than they expect, giving the customer the choice to keep using or stop and pay no more - removing the risk of the risk of the customer being surprised at the cost of their monthly data bill.

Ben

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#585682 23-Feb-2012 13:21

Well that's interesting. The pricing is still madness, but the new approach is completely different to Vodafone's current "double or nothing" option. I wonder if they'll roll out this option to all plans?

grant_k

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#585922 23-Feb-2012 19:37

Speaking as someone who has been using "RBI style" wireless broadband since Jan 2004 (remember project PROBE), I don't consider the ongoing monthly pricing of RBI as too bad. Currently I'm paying $95 for 10GB with 1Mbps download and 340kbps upload speeds.

The RBI service from our nearest Vodafone tower should at least double or triple my download speed, and probably increase my upload speed even more.

I am not impressed with two things:

1) The Installation Cost. $848 for a Yagi antenna, a 3G wireless VoIP router and a technician's visit is simply gouging. My Cisco SRP521W supports a 3G modem, and it does VoIP as well as N-WiFi. Cost about $300, and the Yagi antennae were less than $100 last time I checked. A one or two hour install and up to 2 hours of travel time don't come anywhere near $448.

2) The Calling Charges for the VoIP phone service. They are as follows:

National calls are $0.26 per minute and capped at $2.50 per call (up to 2 hours - after which you will be charged at standard calling rates). Calls to New Zealand mobiles are $0.36 per minute.

Compare those with WxC's VFX service @ 5c per minute to landlines, or 28c per minute to mobiles. Unless a subscriber makes very few phone calls, they would be better off to pay WxC's $11.25 monthly charge, and not use the Vodafone bundled phone service at all.

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grant_k

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#585926 23-Feb-2012 19:46

I just noticed one more "sting in the tail" with the phone service:

Voicemail $7.16 per month.
Anyone trying to reach you can leave a message without you needing a conventional answer phone.

This is included with WxC's offering at no extra charge. IMO, there's not much point having a fixed-line phone these days without voice mail, even if for no better reason than to give callers your mobile number in case you're out and about.

codyc1515

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#585927 23-Feb-2012 19:48

grant_k: Speaking as someone who has been using "RBI style" wireless broadband since Jan 2004 (remember project PROBE), I don't consider the ongoing monthly pricing of RBI as too bad. Currently I'm paying $95 for 10GB with 1Mbps download and 340kbps upload speeds.

The RBI service from our nearest Vodafone tower should at least double or triple my download speed, and probably increase my upload speed even more.

I am not impressed with two things:

1) The Installation Cost. $848 for a Yagi antenna, a 3G wireless VoIP router and a technician's visit is simply gouging. My Cisco SRP521W supports a 3G modem, and it does VoIP as well as N-WiFi. Cost about $300, and the Yagi antennae were less than $100 last time I checked. A one or two hour install and up to 2 hours of travel time don't come anywhere near $448.

2) The Calling Charges for the VoIP phone service. They are as follows:

National calls are $0.26 per minute and capped at $2.50 per call (up to 2 hours - after which you will be charged at standard calling rates). Calls to New Zealand mobiles are $0.36 per minute.

Compare those with WxC's VFX service @ 5c per minute to landlines, or 28c per minute to mobiles. Unless a subscriber makes very few phone calls, they would be better off to pay WxC's $11.25 monthly charge, and not use the Vodafone bundled phone service at all.

I would have to agree with both your points and add one. First of all: the install should be optional. Just as you do not have to pay $200~ every time you want to connect to an ISP with DSL you should not be required to pay the outrageous price for virtually the same thing. On the second point I would say the call pricing is roughly comparable to that of a landline. Keep in mind, to my knowledge, the phone is not VoIP but rather GSM/UMTS. The one thing I would like to add is that even if you opt for the option without the phoneline there is no discount offered at all. Why not? Surely there is a cost to provide this that could reduce the total cost if not offered?

codyc1515

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#585928 23-Feb-2012 19:48

grant_k: I just noticed one more "sting in the tail" with the phone service:

Voicemail $7.16 per month.
Anyone trying to reach you can leave a message without you needing a conventional answer phone.

This is included with WxC's offering at no extra charge. IMO, there's not much point having a fixed-line phone these days without voice mail, even if for no better reason than to give callers your mobile number in case you're out and about.

Again, compare this to a POTS phone line. This is not a VoIP service being offerred.

grant_k

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#585942 23-Feb-2012 20:17

codyc1515: I would have to agree with both your points and add one. First of all: the install should be optional. Just as you do not have to pay $200~ every time you want to connect to an ISP with DSL you should not be required to pay the outrageous price for virtually the same thing.

I couldn't agree more. Having spoken to an installer who has been quietly connecting people up for the past few months, Vodafone will not allow you to do a self-install. This is extremely disappointing, as the work required is a doddle compared to the Airspan fixed wireless equipment that I have been using all these years. If you can climb up a ladder, screw a "hockey stick" mounting to your eave, run a bit of coaxial cable and put a connector on each end, the job is done. Easy peasy for many people on this forum.

codyc1515: On the second point I would say the call pricing is roughly comparable to that of a landline. Keep in mind, to my knowledge, the phone is not VoIP but rather GSM/UMTS.

Well, it's interesting you say this because that is what I thought as well. Given that Vodafone provide both GSM and UMTS from the same cell site as the RBI connection, and all those services are on the 900MHz band. However, the installer I talked to referred to the phone connection jack as an ATA, and said that it used VoIP for implementation, albeit the details are known only to Vodafone. It would be interesting to confirm which viewpoint is the correct one.

codyc1515: The one thing I would like to add is that even if you opt for the option without the phoneline there is no discount offered at all. Why not? Surely there is a cost to provide this that could reduce the total cost if not offered?

Indeed! If you elect not to use part of the bundle, there should be a commensurate reduction in the monthly charge.

codyc1515

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#585947 23-Feb-2012 20:23

grant_k:
codyc1515: I would have to agree with both your points and add one. First of all: the install should be optional. Just as you do not have to pay $200~ every time you want to connect to an ISP with DSL you should not be required to pay the outrageous price for virtually the same thing.

I couldn't agree more. Having spoken to an installer who has been quietly connecting people up for the past few months, Vodafone will not allow you to do a self-install. This is extremely disappointing, as the work required is a doddle compared to the Airspan fixed wireless equipment that I have been using all these years. If you can climb up a ladder, screw a "hockey stick" mounting to your eave, run a bit of coaxial cable and put a connector on each end, the job is done. Easy peasy for many people on this forum.

codyc1515: On the second point I would say the call pricing is roughly comparable to that of a landline. Keep in mind, to my knowledge, the phone is not VoIP but rather GSM/UMTS.

Well, it's interesting you say this because that is what I thought as well. Given that Vodafone provide both GSM and UMTS from the same cell site as the RBI connection, and all those services are on the 900MHz band. However, the installer I talked to referred to the phone connection jack as an ATA, and said that it used VoIP for implementation, albeit the details are known only to Vodafone. It would be interesting to confirm which viewpoint is the correct one.

codyc1515: The one thing I would like to add is that even if you opt for the option without the phoneline there is no discount offered at all. Why not? Surely there is a cost to provide this that could reduce the total cost if not offered?
Indeed! If you elect not to use part of the bundle, there should be a commensurate reduction in the monthly charge.

He probably means it was an ATA in the sense that it is not analogue, therefore it is an analogue telephone adapter.

createcoms

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#585966 23-Feb-2012 21:05

http://www.farmside.co.nz/rbi-fixed-wireless-pricing-

Same product, different ISP.

codyc1515

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#585967 23-Feb-2012 21:08

createcoms: http://www.farmside.co.nz/rbi-fixed-wireless-pricing-

Same product, different ISP.

You sure? The install is only $199.

grant_k

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#585970 23-Feb-2012 21:11

createcoms: http://www.farmside.co.nz/rbi-fixed-wireless-pricing-

Same product, different ISP.

Yet again, Farmside live up to their reputation of being more expensive than everybody else. Vodafone's pricing for 5GB is $80 incl. GST, Farmside charge $89 + GST = $102.35 !!!

Farmside do offer an extra 5GB offpeak data for use during midnight to 6am, but how much use do you think most farmers will get from that?

Agreed, their install pricing at $199 is much better, but the increased ongoing charges will eat up that saving over time. 512kbps upload speed also does not look good.

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