My un-consented UFB install

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Hmm, what to write...
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#1185616 29-Nov-2014 22:52

mdooher: I see many comments about how these installs are free... No they are not, the government (you and I ) are paying quite well for them.
If you are a contractor and think this sort of work is acceptable please stop. You are not the sort of person the rest of us want doing this work. If you would like to do better but can't afford to, then you shouldn't have signed the contract in the first place.

I take pride in my work and I take pride in the many people I have trained to do this sort of work. This stuff is an embarrassment, and an insult to all good tradesmen.

If you work for a contractor who thinks this sort of thing is acceptable, don't do it, have some pride, Find a professional to work for.

What do you mean open up the wall?, don't own any extension bits? Don't know how to use fish tape? Can't go round the other way? Don't know any good sparkles or plumbers to ask for advice?

Matthew

richms

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#1185617 29-Nov-2014 22:56

The taxpayer is paying for the installs. So the quicker the installer is in and out of the house leaving a working fiber install getting the benifits of the fiber network the better.

The installs where the external fiber may get damaged etc are a concern, but a cable securely attached to a wall internally that may not look the nicest but is secure is fulfilling that purpose.

For all we know the person posting that picture gave the go ahead for it and its the wife that is posting pictures not happy with how it has come out.

Richard rich.ms

eth

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#1185621 29-Nov-2014 23:01

mdooher: I see many comments about how these installs are free... No they are not, the government (you and I ) are paying quite well for them.
If you are a contractor and think this sort of work is acceptable please stop. You are not the sort of person the rest of us want doing this work. If you would like to do better but can't afford to, then you shouldn't have signed the contract in the first place.

I take pride in my work and I take pride in the many people I have trained to do this sort of work. This stuff is an embarrassment, and an insult to all good tradesmen.

If you work for a contractor who thinks this sort of thing is acceptable, don't do it, have some pride, Find a professional to work for.

You're right, It seems Chorus installs are getting worse and worse as they run out money but that still doesn't make it an acceptable install. They made an agreement when they signed the contract with the government, if they can't meet their end of the agreement due to financial constraints then tough luck, they should have thought of that when they signed their original contract.

The thing I find interesting as all these shoddy installs keep popping up left, right and centre, is that Chorus seem to always respond with "oh that install where the cable is nailed to your fence/wall/ceiling/whatever next is perfectly acceptable and suitable" which makes it clear that their standards are dropping, and they can't carry out their installs to the high standard which you would expect for a network which in meant to last for many years into the future. These installs are going to cost more in the long run as they are so fragile and poorly done that Chorus will end up spending thousands coming back repeatedly to fix it or redo the whole install the way it should have been done in the first place.

mdooher

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#1185622 29-Nov-2014 23:05

richms: The taxpayer is paying for the installs. So the quicker the installer is in and out of the house leaving a working fiber install getting the benifits of the fiber network the better.

The installs where the external fiber may get damaged etc are a concern, but a cable securely attached to a wall internally that may not look the nicest but is secure is fulfilling that purpose.

For all we know the person posting that picture gave the go ahead for it and its the wife that is posting pictures not happy with how it has come out.

Gave the go ahead? So someone must have offered them the option... Who? Someone with no pride obviously.

Fulfils it's purpose.... A 1982 nipple pink Scoda serves it purpose as a car but it doesn't make it ok.

Matthew

mattwnz

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#1185623 29-Nov-2014 23:06

This article may explain some of it, as they have brought down the install cost by quite a bit. I wonder where the cost savings are being made. http://www.computerworld.co.nz/article/560377/chorus-reduces-ufb-connection-cost-guidance/

mdooher

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#1185625 29-Nov-2014 23:11

mattwnz: This article may explain some of it, as they have brought down the install cost by quite a bit. I wonder where the cost savings are being made. http://www.computerworld.co.nz/article/560377/chorus-reduces-ufb-connection-cost-guidance/

Chorus seems to think it is because their contractors are getting better and faster....yeah right

Matthew

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#1185626 29-Nov-2014 23:14

mdooher:
mattwnz: This article may explain some of it, as they have brought down the install cost by quite a bit. I wonder where the cost savings are being made. http://www.computerworld.co.nz/article/560377/chorus-reduces-ufb-connection-cost-guidance/

Chorus seems to think it is because their contractors are getting better and faster....yeah right

That may account for it after the 1st week or month of work. The question is are they installing it in the same way, and to the same quality or installation. People have a huge financial investment in their house, and hardly want unsightly installs, and ugly black wires pinned to white walls. At least the wire could have been white.

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richms

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#1185631 30-Nov-2014 00:01

mattwnz:
That may account for it after the 1st week or month of work. The question is are they installing it in the same way, and to the same quality or installation. People have a huge financial investment in their house, and hardly want unsightly installs, and ugly black wires pinned to white walls. At least the wire could have been white.

Then let them pay for it. They have the option of discussing anything beyond the free contribution at the time of the installation.

Yes, the wire could have been white but my understanding is they dont have a choice of colour of the ducting at this stage. Its something that chorus should probably consider.

Richard rich.ms

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#1185634 30-Nov-2014 00:35

@mdooher if you think you can makr money doing these installa be my guest and go out onto the road and see what its like - a coded install which alot of chorus techs are get paid about $280 for an install no matter what work they do so go out and make a living doing a nice job _b

ckc

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#1185635 30-Nov-2014 00:48

mdooher:
richms: The taxpayer is paying for the installs. So the quicker the installer is in and out of the house leaving a working fiber install getting the benifits of the fiber network the better.

The installs where the external fiber may get damaged etc are a concern, but a cable securely attached to a wall internally that may not look the nicest but is secure is fulfilling that purpose.

For all we know the person posting that picture gave the go ahead for it and its the wife that is posting pictures not happy with how it has come out.

Gave the go ahead? So someone must have offered them the option... Who? Someone with no pride obviously.

Fulfils it's purpose.... A 1982 nipple pink Scoda serves it purpose as a car but it doesn't make it ok.

OT but I would frickin love that car in my driveway.

ckc

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#1185636 30-Nov-2014 00:58

richms:
mattwnz:
That may account for it after the 1st week or month of work. The question is are they installing it in the same way, and to the same quality or installation. People have a huge financial investment in their house, and hardly want unsightly installs, and ugly black wires pinned to white walls. At least the wire could have been white.

Then let them pay for it. They have the option of discussing anything beyond the free contribution at the time of the installation.

Yes, the wire could have been white but my understanding is they dont have a choice of colour of the ducting at this stage. Its something that chorus should probably consider.

My experience with having that kind of discussion with Chorus was that they were trying to bully me into paying for something I didn't have to pay for. I have no doubt that Chorus are telling owners that their way is the only way or you can pay many thousands of dollars. Or stick with ADSL. Exactly where do Chorus lose in this? It's probably worse for them to migrate people off copper in the short term. Delay and they can see their way out of the $30m they offered for 'difficult' installs, or save as much money as possible doing a bodge job. Take a really difficult customer, they can just opt to stay on copper and Chorus STILL win.

They lied to me about the amount they were subsidised for each connection, they lied about what inspections they had done, they had bad information to begin with, and when they finally did the inspection and looked at the actual existing copper (instead of just guessing), they shrugged and said they had no idea where it connected to on their network, so we'll still run ruggedised through your flower beds.

I wouldn't trust anyone working for Chorus to run fibre without detailed plans first. Hell, I wouldn't trust them to run and get me a beer. They'd probably pour it into their hands, throw it in my face and think that's a job done, because, hey, you got your beer, didn't you?

The more people put up with this crap, the more Chorus will do it.

mattwnz

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#1185637 30-Nov-2014 01:01

Cbfd: @mdooher if you think you can makr money doing these installa be my guest and go out onto the road and see what its like - a coded install which alot of chorus techs are get paid about $280 for an install no matter what work they do so go out and make a living doing a nice job _b

What's that work out at, at an hourly rate, as that is what is most important.

mattwnz

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#1185639 30-Nov-2014 01:05

richms:
mattwnz:
That may account for it after the 1st week or month of work. The question is are they installing it in the same way, and to the same quality or installation. People have a huge financial investment in their house, and hardly want unsightly installs, and ugly black wires pinned to white walls. At least the wire could have been white.

Then let them pay for it. They have the option of discussing anything beyond the free contribution at the time of the installation.

Yes, the wire could have been white but my understanding is they dont have a choice of colour of the ducting at this stage. Its something that chorus should probably consider.

Perhaps that needs to be clearer, as to what sort of standard of work is included in the basic install. But I think that to have the wiring installed in the actual walls is a minimum standard, unless there are extraordinary circumstances that prevent this being done easily.. I mean any electrician installing network cables in a house, installs it in the walls as a minimum standard, they don't go attaching it to the outside surfaces of walls.

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#1185662 30-Nov-2014 07:13

mdooher:
richms: The taxpayer is paying for the installs. So the quicker the installer is in and out of the house leaving a working fiber install getting the benifits of the fiber network the better.

The installs where the external fiber may get damaged etc are a concern, but a cable securely attached to a wall internally that may not look the nicest but is secure is fulfilling that purpose.

For all we know the person posting that picture gave the go ahead for it and its the wife that is posting pictures not happy with how it has come out.

Gave the go ahead? So someone must have offered them the option... Who? Someone with no pride obviously.

Fulfils it's purpose.... A 1982 nipple pink Scoda serves it purpose as a car but it doesn't make it ok.

Why are you ranting and raving about pride? This is pretty clearly an instructed method of installation which is within spec. If this method of install is within spec so blaming the contractors isn't fair. It's a client (Chorus) driven problem, not a contractor driven one.

To use your car analogy you are asking for Toyota performance at a Mahindra price. If a car manufacturer did that, they would rapidly go broke, the same with a contracting company. If the client has demanded a reduction in cost then this is what will happen.

mdooher

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#1185679 30-Nov-2014 08:30

Cbfd: @mdooher if you think you can makr money doing these installa be my guest and go out onto the road and see what its like - a coded install which alot of chorus techs are get paid about $280 for an install no matter what work they do so go out and make a living doing a nice job _b

I train people to do this sort of work. I know how it should be done. I know what sort of work would I would sign off as competent.

A contractor agrees to to a job for a certain price, if he doesn't think it can be done to a high standard for that price he has a choice... Lower his standards, or don't take the job.

Anecdotally many of these installs have been done by visionstream, I haven't seen their share price dropping because they are losing money. I don't know what they pay their subcontractors or techs or how they organise an install but they are not losing money.

Matthew

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