My un-consented UFB install

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4962 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#1185719 30-Nov-2014 10:46

mdooher:
Cbfd: @mdooher if you think you can makr money doing these installa be my guest and go out onto the road and see what its like - a coded install which alot of chorus techs are get paid about $280 for an install no matter what work they do so go out and make a living doing a nice job _b

I train people to do this sort of work. I know how it should be done. I know what sort of work would I would sign off as competent.

A contractor agrees to to a job for a certain price, if he doesn't think it can be done to a high standard for that price he has a choice... Lower his standards, or don't take the job.

Anecdotally many of these installs have been done by visionstream, I haven't seen their share price dropping because they are losing money. I don't know what they pay their subcontractors or techs or how they organise an install but they are not losing money.

Coming from actually doing UFB installs I can tell you the money is not that awesome but it certainly covers a length of trunking.
The install is not a single code. We got codes for every aspect of the job and for just about every situation - at first we thought the amount of different codes was crazy but they are like that so it is fair on the contractors. If contractors aren't proactively monitoring their installs to claim the right codes that is their problem.

I wouldn't expect a UFB installer to drill down a wall (that does take a decent chunk of time) but if running internally I would expect some trunking to be used because there is certainly enough in the internal codes to pay for a bit of that.

Nil Einne

469 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1186010 1-Dec-2014 06:14

I agree with the others who've said there's a strong risk Chorus are showing in a penny wise/pound foolish thinking. Even if such an install doesn't have that high a chance of accidental damage (although there is kids and pets), what about when someone tries to do something about it because let's face it, it's butt ugly? We've already seem a small number of reports of people trying to move ONTs, you can be sure stuff like that ugly internal cable isn't going to help matters.

Similar cable stuck on any surface that can be found, even those which could easily be removed or replaced (like fences).

In theory the person who breaks the cable will have to pay. But theory doesn't always work out so well. Trying to pursue someone for costs through legal means, particularly when they were trying to fix the ugly internal cabling or silly placed external that Chorus considered an acceptable standard, even if the customer technically consented to it (perhaps under strong pressure or being told a better install would cost a lot more then it likely would), may not be easy. In the modem world, the person would probably need some internet connection and Chorus could refuse to reconnect even a copper connection but I'm not sure how well that will go down.

Consider also the case where a person just bought the house. May be they didn't actually damage the cable (or may be they did but are pretending they didn't). If Chorus are still offering free or highly subsidised installs, the person may just ask for a new install. Chorus could try and pursue the person who used to live in the house, or may be the new owner is technically responsible even if they didn't actually damage the cable, but again there's likely to be a lot of complexities. It just seems a bad idea to skimp out so badly on something which should probably last decades. (Well it's perhaps less expected for the internal cabling, particularly since people may change their minds on the ONT location, but I would say at least 1 decade is resonable.)

deadlyllama

1264 posts

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Trusted

#1186111 1-Dec-2014 09:45

Nil Einne:
In theory the person who breaks the cable will have to pay. But theory doesn't always work out so well.

Wait and see what happens when a house has only UFB (copper removed or new build with it never there) and the cable is broken. You won't pay to have it fixed? Well, pity about that UFB connection you used to have.

Aredwood

3885 posts

Uber Geek

#1186665 1-Dec-2014 22:31

richms:
mattwnz:
That may account for it after the 1st week or month of work. The question is are they installing it in the same way, and to the same quality or installation. People have a huge financial investment in their house, and hardly want unsightly installs, and ugly black wires pinned to white walls. At least the wire could have been white.

Then let them pay for it. They have the option of discussing anything beyond the free contribution at the time of the installation.

Yes, the wire could have been white but my understanding is they dont have a choice of colour of the ducting at this stage. Its something that chorus should probably consider.

Both My house and 1 of my neighbours have white cable running between the ETP and the ONT on our houses. The cable is the combined 2 pair fibre and 2 or 4 pair copper. Can't tell from the photo if a black version of the multi pair cable has been used. Or if they used the same microduct that is normally used outside.

zyo

513 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1187312 2-Dec-2014 18:41

Just wondering what are my rights here, I got in touch with Chorus and they contacted Visionstream and the contracting manager called me and said they are going to come and remove all the cablings etc and cancel the request. WTF?

MadEngineer

4295 posts

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#1187328 2-Dec-2014 19:03

Last post from the OP:

thurthur: Currently CHORUZNZ has offered to look into it for me so I will see where that leads.

At this point short of getting in touch with Crown fibre, local politicians or the media I can't see a resolution any better than having an exposed venerable cable running down the drive.

The quality of the internal work is as far as I can tell very good.

So .... have you requested a copy of your consent form yet?

You're not on Atlantis anymore, Duncan Idaho.

zyo

513 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1187330 2-Dec-2014 19:05

MadEngineer: So .... have you requested a copy of your consent form yet?

They don't have one obviously, I contacted Chorus and they said there has been a verbal consent from the owner. Obvious BS is obvious.

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MadEngineer

4295 posts

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#1187333 2-Dec-2014 19:07

sorry zyo I briefly confused you for the thread starter

are you not the owner? ask where this verbal consent took place - if it was over the phone there will be a recording.

request a copy

You're not on Atlantis anymore, Duncan Idaho.

zyo

513 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1187336 2-Dec-2014 19:10

MadEngineer: sorry zyo I briefly confused you for the thread starter

are you not the owner? ask where this verbal consent took place - if it was over the phone there will be a recording.

request a copy

I am the property owner. I don't think there will be a recording no point in asking that. Chorus is not arguing the work is unconsented, I am more interested in fixing the issue (above ground installation)

WayDownSouth

8 posts

Wannabe Geek

#1190152 7-Dec-2014 16:43

I think you will find the Government Subsidy ran out a while ago.

The installation is technically free because you as the customer aren't paying anything up front. The RSP are the ones paying for your standard installation, and can take many years to recoup the costs.

The problem is Chorus could not continue to provide a gold standard installation without a continued Government subsidy.
The installation standards are similar to SKY and do include surface mounted wiring, both inside and outside the premises, and by doing this, chorus have managed to bring down the installation costs .

The new agreements have enabled Chorus to update its connections cost guidance for the current financial year from a previous range of $1,300 to $1,500 (excluding layer 2 and for standard installations only), to a new range of $1,150 to $1,350 (excluding layer 2 and including standard installations and some non-standard single dwelling unit installations). - See more at: http://www.chorus.co.nz/chorus-reduces-ufb-connection-cost-guidance#sthash.5aaLSHio.dpuf

The installers install to a standard which chorus set. Many installers do provide a higher standard than the ones set. The customer has the choice not to accept the installation standards and therefore the service, or have the choice to pay someone like you or me to provide a draw wire, trenching, conduit or any other method that the customer would find acceptable. I've found in the past, that most customers don't want to pay for anything past the free installation (Both sky and UFB installs)

DarthKermit

5346 posts

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#1190334 8-Dec-2014 09:07

WayDownSouth: The installers install to a standard which chorus set. Many installers do provide a higher standard than the ones set. The customer has the choice not to accept the installation standards and therefore the service, or have the choice to pay someone like you or me to provide a draw wire, trenching, conduit or any other method that the customer would find acceptable. I've found in the past, that most customers don't want to pay for anything past the free installation (Both sky and UFB installs)

I decided to install my own conduit, buried 500 mm down after seeing install jobs such as this one:

in my area.

Whatifthespacekeyhadneverbeeninvented?

daparrot

128 posts

Master Geek

#1191748 8-Dec-2014 18:48

I just got these images of a UFB "Install" done today in auckland

As you can see if you have someone drive over the curbing of the driveway ( easily done being narrow and having teenagers )
you are going to sustain damage to the fibre I guess if this happens it will be the home owners fault/cost..

Does anyone have a contact of someone in authority where we can discuss this crappy installation?

Its installs like this which give the industry a bad name

DarthKermit

5346 posts

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#1191773 8-Dec-2014 20:08

You could send a PM to user chorusnz on here.

Whatifthespacekeyhadneverbeeninvented?

WayDownSouth

8 posts

Wannabe Geek

#1191779 8-Dec-2014 20:24

Did you consent to this? every job requires the owner to give consent.

If there is more than 3 meters of trenching required, chorus now have to give approval.

Looking at the photos if someone could run over the Ruggeridised Tubing, then would they hit the wall before the tubing? The fibre itself is inside the tubing and even if run over I would say the fibre would be alright, you just couldn't blow a new one down.

There is a clear procedure from chorus now regarding installation (I think in the following order:

Aerial if existing,
Existing Duct,
Surface Mount
Trenching

If you can surface mount and the customer wants trenching then the customer has to pay - Are you prepared to pay say $1000 for trenching, or prepared to trench yourself?

daparrot: I just got these images of a UFB "Install" done today in auckland

As you can see if you have someone drive over the curbing of the driveway ( easily done being narrow and having teenagers )
you are going to sustain damage to the fibre I guess if this happens it will be the home owners fault/cost..

Does anyone have a contact of someone in authority where we can discuss this crappy installation?

Its installs like this which give the industry a bad name

WayDownSouth

8 posts

Wannabe Geek

#1191780 8-Dec-2014 20:26

I would do the same myself, but how many others are prepare to provide new trenching/ ducting themselves or pay someone else to have it done.

Theres no such thing as a FREE BREAKFAST

DarthKermit:
WayDownSouth: The installers install to a standard which chorus set. Many installers do provide a higher standard than the ones set. The customer has the choice not to accept the installation standards and therefore the service, or have the choice to pay someone like you or me to provide a draw wire, trenching, conduit or any other method that the customer would find acceptable. I've found in the past, that most customers don't want to pay for anything past the free installation (Both sky and UFB installs)

I decided to install my own conduit, buried 500 mm down after seeing install jobs such as this one:

in my area.

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