UFB ISP Connection/Authentication

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Zeon

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#103304 3-Jun-2012 18:38

Hey guys,
Anyone know how UFB connects ie is it you are just given a static IP with the provider using VLANs/proxy ARP or is it similar to DSL with PPP?

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Biddle Corp

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#635137 3-Jun-2012 18:40

For Chorus at least it's virtually identical to existing EUBA - a VLAN on the ethernet interface and then DHCP, static IP or PPPoE depending on what the ISP wants to offer.

shanehobson

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#635151 3-Jun-2012 19:08

UFB is just a layer 2 service, so the LFC doesn't define how authentication works. That's up to your ISP. Some will give you a static IP address, others will use PPPoE.
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sbiddle

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#635174 3-Jun-2012 19:54

It's worth noting as well that with EUBA there is no requirement for an ISP to use PPP - since EUBA is ethernet based the ISP can use any method they want. This also applies to ADSL2+ over EUBA where a static IP or PPPoE can be used rather than PPPoA.

Zeon

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#635270 3-Jun-2012 23:39

sbiddle: It's worth noting as well that with EUBA there is no requirement for an ISP to use PPP - since EUBA is ethernet based the ISP can use any method they want. This also applies to ADSL2+ over EUBA where a static IP or PPPoE can be used rather than PPPoA.

Oh I never realized that was the case with EUBA. So does each ISP get a single VLAN for all their customers within say one of the UFB "regions" that all their customers connect to? Or does each customer have a seperate VLAN (hard to see with max 4000~ VLANs though?). If all on the same VLAN how can they stop customers connecting directly to each other?

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shanehobson

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#635305 4-Jun-2012 05:46

Bitstream 3 & 4 provide VLAN stacking, so multiple VLANs per customer. How many are available to the customer is defined by the ISP.
Bitstream 2 is single VLAN per customer, but it can be different from other customers or the same depending upon how the ISP wants to run it.

In all cases, Ultrafast Fibre Ltd (and probably the other LFCs) uses split horizon or layer 2 separation to stop customers of the same ISP seeing each other.

All traffic must flow through the E-NNI (handover port) facing the ISP. The LFC is not permitted to pass traffic solely inside it's network.

sbiddle

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#635313 4-Jun-2012 08:45

Zeon:
sbiddle: It's worth noting as well that with EUBA there is no requirement for an ISP to use PPP - since EUBA is ethernet based the ISP can use any method they want. This also applies to ADSL2+ over EUBA where a static IP or PPPoE can be used rather than PPPoA.

Oh I never realized that was the case with EUBA. So does each ISP get a single VLAN for all their customers within say one of the UFB "regions" that all their customers connect to? Or does each customer have a seperate VLAN (hard to see with max 4000~ VLANs though?). If all on the same VLAN how can they stop customers connecting directly to each other?

Handover is QinQ or 802.1ad (ISP can choose) using an outer and inner VLAN tag. For ADSL2+ there are two different inner tags depending on whether the customer uses the EUBA service (PPPoE or static IP) with VLAN10 on the interface or the legacy fallpack PPPoA -> PPPoE conversion in the ISAM. Most ISP's use PPPoA fallback for ADSL2+ despite the many benefits of native PPPoE because the vast majority of modems don't support setting VLAN10 on the interface.

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2degrees

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#638995 11-Jun-2012 15:18

Orcon is using DHCP and authenticating using the DHCP Option 82 fields supplied by the LFC.

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raytaylor

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#639111 11-Jun-2012 16:55

Im still undecided between dhcp based on mac address or if i should use pppoe

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icepicknz

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#639424 12-Jun-2012 08:29

We using PPPoE but considering IPoE DHCP 82 stuff. PPPoE is just so easy to manage and to use existing infrastructure but does have its limitations of MTU size.

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Publius

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#641511 15-Jun-2012 17:14

Using DHCP is a much better option for customers as they can buy pretty much any router etc from a store and plug it in and it "just works" as most are set to dhcp on the wan port by default.

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#641613 15-Jun-2012 20:45

Publius: Using DHCP is a much better option for customers as they can buy pretty much any router etc from a store and plug it in and it "just works" as most are set to dhcp on the wan port by default.

Thats fine - but the accounting system wouldnt know who just plugged in the router. It could have a specific subscriber associated with a specific static ip address, but the DHCP wouldnt know that the new router that has come online was purchased by a certain customer at dick smith.

Thats where i find the option 82 suff interesting.
http://slaptijack.com/networking/what-is-dhcp-option-82/

The above link basically says if you have a dhcp server within a managed switch, you can put it onto relay mode, and a port number will be sent with the renew request to the dhcp server which would know what ip to issue based on port or tail, rather than mac address.
The accounting system could then count the data going to or from the ip address.

So i can see option 82 easily working on a privately owned network such as orcon's own fibre or a corporate ethernet network inside a large office building, but i am not sure how it would work for chorus. From my conversations with them, i understand its just a big VLAN that they provide the isp, with multiple tails. So it would need to be a router provided by the isp with a dhcp server acting only as a relay which could insert the option 82 data into the renew request, or perhaps the ONT provided by chorus might provide an option to insert the tail number or something? I have not yet got as far as looking at the capabilities of the ONT or if it even has any features that an ISP could use.

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sbiddle

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#641622 15-Jun-2012 21:07

Option 82 is also used on Chorus xDSL at present.

raytaylor

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#641650 15-Jun-2012 21:45

sbiddle: Option 82 is also used on Chorus xDSL at present.

Interesting - can you please explain how it works on the DSL? Does each port in the country have a numbering system or something?

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wired

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#641651 15-Jun-2012 21:48

raytaylor:
So i can see option 82 easily working on a privately owned network such as orcon's own fibre or a corporate ethernet network inside a large office building, but i am not sure how it would work for chorus. From my conversations with them, i understand its just a big VLAN that they provide the isp, with multiple tails. So it would need to be a router provided by the isp with a dhcp server acting only as a relay which could insert the option 82 data into the renew request, or perhaps the ONT provided by chorus might provide an option to insert the tail number or something? I have not yet got as far as looking at the capabilities of the ONT or if it even has any features that an ISP could use.

For GPON, the option 82 information is added by the OLT based on the ONT that the DHCP request packet arrives on. Therefore the circuit ID is based the slot and port number of the OLT.

Be careful of relying totally on the circuitID as this may change over time if the PON segment is groomed. For example if the customer requests an upgrade which oversubscribes the CIR and possibly the EIR (based on the SLA) then the customer may need to be moved to another PON segment. In this case the circuit ID would change.

edit: Sorry that should read that it is based on frameid/slotID/PortID

raytaylor

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#641655 15-Jun-2012 21:58

wired:
raytaylor:
So i can see option 82 easily working on a privately owned network such as orcon's own fibre or a corporate ethernet network inside a large office building, but i am not sure how it would work for chorus. From my conversations with them, i understand its just a big VLAN that they provide the isp, with multiple tails. So it would need to be a router provided by the isp with a dhcp server acting only as a relay which could insert the option 82 data into the renew request, or perhaps the ONT provided by chorus might provide an option to insert the tail number or something? I have not yet got as far as looking at the capabilities of the ONT or if it even has any features that an ISP could use.

For GPON, the option 82 information is added by the OLT based on the ONT that the DHCP request packet arrives on. Therefore the circuit ID is based the slot and port number of the OLT.

Be careful of relying totally on the circuitID as this may change over time if the PON segment is groomed. For example if the customer requests an upgrade which oversubscribes the CIR and possibly the EIR (based on the SLA) then the customer may need to be moved to another PON segment. In this case the circuit ID would change.

edit: Sorry that should read that it is based on frameid/slotID/PortID

Well thats awesome.
Does the 82 data get inserted automatically and transparently as it flows through the OLT or does the OLT have an active relay system in it?

Ray Taylor

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