Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


dteirney

49 posts

Geek


#105693 8-Jul-2012 12:30
Send private message

In my effort to help try and understand why we have such a poor ADSL sync rate for our line attenuation stats I installed DMT DSL-Modem Tools.

Below is a graph of the bits per bin and SNR for each of the bins in the frequency spectrum used by ADSL2+. There are clearly some chunks of the spectrum that aren't even being used, which probably accounts for our low sync rate of 7.2Mbit with 6dB noise margin or 5.5Mbit with 12dB noise margin.



Below is a screenshot with an overlay showing what it should look like for a good line. The rectangle would be for a perfect line. The sloped shape is perhaps more like what it should look like when accounting for attenuation.



Is there anyone in the geekzone area that knows how to interpret these DMT graphs?

I've done a lot of searching on the internet but not found much concrete information. Generally it seems that some of the frequencies can be knocked out of use by noise interference external to the line or by noise caused by network topology, e.g. things like bridge taps.

The attenuation for the higher frequency bins does get high but some of those frequencies still manage to be used for transmitting data even when bins next to them don't even though the attenuation is similar.

Our house setup:
Line comes off pole and into house via plastic POE on fascia of house.
In the roof the line connects directly to a Dynamix VDSL capable master filter (soldered to orange pair on filter as the incoming black phone line was too thick to use a scotch lock).
Filter connects to Hubble phone module (blue pair to blue lines, green pair to green lines)
2 cat6 phone lines connect to the Hubble phone module using blue lines.
1 cat6 line connects to the Hubble phone module using a green line and goes straight to an RJ45 jack point near modem.
Custom made RJ45 to RJ11 lead goes to ADSL2+ modem (Netgear DGN2200)
POTS alarm has an RX11 connection to the Hubble phone module, again via cat6.

The modem connects at the same speed the Chorus tech connected when using the line directly off the pole. That's the only testing Chorus have done to date.


Create new topic
sidefx
3711 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  #652510 8-Jul-2012 14:37
Send private message

dteirney: 

The modem connects at the same speed the Chorus tech connected when using the line directly off the pole. That's the only testing Chorus have done to date.



Which seems to suggest it's outside of your control and not caused by internal wiring\master filter\etc.  Any idea how far from the exchange\cabinet you are?

EDIT: oh and what provider\any idea if you're on LLU equipment?  I had very low sync speeds which were fixed by changing to wholesale as per: http://www.geekzone.co.nz/sbiddle/7872 

EDIT2: Sorry, I see you have gone into details in your previous thread already. Since I can't help with the actual DMT tool analysis hopefully someone else can.   But if I were you I would be contacting your ISP and chasing them about it.  Mention the SAT and the fact it shows you in a 10mbps zone. Both those things helped when I was having issues and in the end moved to wholesale connection.   Not sure how much luck you will have if you're already on wholesale; I see there is a disclaimer on the SAT:

"The information provided is indicative only and should not be relied upon as a guarantee of network service or performance."




"I was born not knowing and have had only a little time to change that here and there."         | Octopus Energy | Sharesies
              - Richard Feynman




mercutio
1392 posts

Uber Geek


  #652553 8-Jul-2012 16:36
Send private message

fwiw... 


https://cdn.geekzone.co.nz/imagessubs/59c88da1c8c9e185a190dc7f1cb05157.jpg 

your green and blue look closer together... but my line seems more consistent towards the end than the start.. with just a minor dip.

dteirney

49 posts

Geek


  #653799 10-Jul-2012 22:55
Send private message

The dips in the ADSL tones seem to correspond exactly with Aucklands AM radio stations. Looks like I'll be spending some time at the weekend replacing the last small section of non-twisted pair between the splitter and the POE to see if that helps.



AM radio stations are on the following frequencies with the gaps noted next to them.
  • 531 (clearly a dip here)
  • 603 (clearly a dip here)
  • 702 (Gap 1 is 703-707)
  • 756 (Gap 2 is 755-763)
  • 810 (Gap 3 is 811-815)
  • 882 (Gap 5 is 875-893)
  • 936 (Gap 5 is 936-940)
  • 990 (Gap 6 is 983-1005)
  • (Gap 7 is 1035 - 1039 and unaccounted for)
  • 1080, 1179, 1251 (Gap 9 is 1057-1264)
  • 1332 (strangely no gap for this station)
  • 1386 (Gap 10 is 1363-1402)
  • 1476 (Gap 11 is 1471-1484)
  • 1593 (Gap 12 is 1587-1604)

Anyone got any tips for shielding out AM radio interference?



dteirney

49 posts

Geek


  #655551 14-Jul-2012 14:22
Send private message

I just finished replacing the last section of wire that was originally in the house when we got it. Unfortunately it didn't make a shred of difference.

Our overhead line in is a 4-wire one and filled with grease.
That then connects to a Cat5e cable using scotch locks which is routed through the soffit and into the roof space.
That Cat5e cable connects to the master splitter using scotch locks.
The master splitter then connects to the Hubble phone module.
That then connects to Cat6 cable that goes all the way to an RJ45 jack.
That jack has another Cat5e cable connected (custom made with RJ45 to RJ11 connectors) which then goes into the modem.







I don't think there is anything else I can do to help reduce the AM interference as I'm running twisted pair absolutely everywhere now.

Guess I'll get back in touch with FYX and see if there is anything that Chorus can look at with regards to AM interference.

If anyone else has any advice that would be grand.

richms
28169 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #655632 14-Jul-2012 18:23
Send private message

Hmm, wonder if that could be the cause of my crappy VDSL, I get absrudly strong AM signals here, to the point where my audio cables from my CCTV cameras will pick up a nice hodepodge of various ethnic banter I could do without.

Sooner they turn AM off the better if it is affecting peoples DSL, or at least move the transmitters out of urban areas to the whopwhops, I am sure where they were put out west was the whops when they installed it whenever that was.




Richard rich.ms

chevrolux
4962 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user


  #655651 14-Jul-2012 18:50
Send private message

AM affects VDSL a hell of a lot more than ADSL. To the point they were talking about shielded aerial drop leads. Done faults for chorus and everything can be fixed by either installing a filter or getting the distribution pairs sorted out. For really bad lines we would go through and get rid of all the multiples to get the best pair possible. If you have the internal wiring sorted get a tech out and get them to have a look at the line and find the bad points and sort it out. Very unlikely to be AM interference on ADSL.

sidefx
3711 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  #655683 14-Jul-2012 19:33
Send private message

Are your cables on the street overhead or underground?




"I was born not knowing and have had only a little time to change that here and there."         | Octopus Energy | Sharesies
              - Richard Feynman


 
 
 

Free kids accounts - trade shares and funds (NZ, US) with Sharesies (affiliate link).
dteirney

49 posts

Geek


  #655891 15-Jul-2012 10:53
Send private message

Our phone line travels from the house to a pole on our side of the street.
It then travels across the street to another pole just opposite.
It then disappears into a box on that pole and then down into the ground next to a mushroom.
Not sure where it goes from there.
Photos below.












gzt

gzt
17110 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #655902 15-Jul-2012 11:08
Send private message

Couple of interesting contributions from Grant_k and Cyril in this thread:

http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=49&topicid=18026

I read elsewhere some modems are better at isolating it than others. Might be worth a go.

dteirney

49 posts

Geek


  #655911 15-Jul-2012 11:21
Send private message

Actually, the move to the Cat5e cable in the roof made a small difference. It got rid of a couple of gaps that weren't in the AM spectrum. Now every single gap corresponds to an AM radio station frequency. Some of the gaps cover several close radio station frequencies. Some of the radio station frequencies knock out more than the exact tone that it covers.



  • 531kHz : Radio 531 P.I - dip here but not a full Gap
  • 603kHz : Radio Waatea - dip here but not a full Gap
  • 702kHz : Radio Live - Gap1 703kHz-707kHz (Tone163)
  • 756kHz : Radio New Zealand National - Gap2 755kHz-759kHz (Tone175)
  • 810kHz : BBC World Service - Gap3 811kHz-815kHz (Tone188)
  • 882kHz : Southern Star and Parliament Radio - Gap4 880kHz-888kHz (Tone204-Tone205)
  • 936kHz : New Supremo - Gap5 936kHz-940kHz (Tone217)
  • 990kHz : Apna - Gap6 983kHz-1005kHz (Tone228-Tone232)
  • 1080kHz : Newstalk ZB - Gap7 1057kHz-1268kHz (Tone245-Tone293)
  • 1179kHz : Radio Ake - Gap7 1057kHz-1268kHz (Tone245-Tone293)
  • 1251kHz : Radio Rhema - Gap7 1057kHz-1268kHz (Tone245-Tone293)
  • 1332kHz : Radio Sport - Gap8 1311kHz-1410kHz (Tone304-Tone326)
  • 1386kHz : Radio Tarana - Gap8 1311kHz-1410kHz (Tone304-Tone326)
  • 1476kHz : BSport and Radio Trackside - Gap9 1471kHz-1488kHz (Tone341-Tone344)
  • 1593kHz : Radio Samoa - Gap10 1583kHz-1609kHz (Tone367-Tone372)

dteirney

49 posts

Geek


  #655923 15-Jul-2012 11:38
Send private message

gzt: I read elsewhere some modems are better at isolating it than others. Might be worth a go.


I've had the almost exact sync rate with a 3Com OfficeConnect modem and a Linksys X3000.

The Chorus tech synced at the same rate with his modem tool device when he tested off the wire coming straight off the pole.

sidefx
3711 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  #655939 15-Jul-2012 12:22
Send private message

I think undergrounding all the cables would help, but since the chorus tech measured the same sync rates outside your property it sounds like it's all the overhead lines on the road, and possibly wherever it goes after that could be the main issue... good luck getting those undergrounded :-/




"I was born not knowing and have had only a little time to change that here and there."         | Octopus Energy | Sharesies
              - Richard Feynman


dteirney

49 posts

Geek


  #656761 16-Jul-2012 23:15
Send private message

chevrolux: AM affects VDSL a hell of a lot more than ADSL. To the point they were talking about shielded aerial drop leads. Done faults for chorus and everything can be fixed by either installing a filter or getting the distribution pairs sorted out. For really bad lines we would go through and get rid of all the multiples to get the best pair possible. If you have the internal wiring sorted get a tech out and get them to have a look at the line and find the bad points and sort it out. Very unlikely to be AM interference on ADSL.


@chevrolux, I think I might have misread this the first time. Are you saying that the AM interference with my ADSL should be able to be resolved if I manage to get a Chorus tech person on site?

mercutio
1392 posts

Uber Geek


  #656798 17-Jul-2012 05:00
Send private message

dteirney:
chevrolux: AM affects VDSL a hell of a lot more than ADSL. To the point they were talking about shielded aerial drop leads. Done faults for chorus and everything can be fixed by either installing a filter or getting the distribution pairs sorted out. For really bad lines we would go through and get rid of all the multiples to get the best pair possible. If you have the internal wiring sorted get a tech out and get them to have a look at the line and find the bad points and sort it out. Very unlikely to be AM interference on ADSL.


@chevrolux, I think I might have misread this the first time. Are you saying that the AM interference with my ADSL should be able to be resolved if I manage to get a Chorus tech person on site?


I think what he's saying is that VDSL has more issues than ADSL with AM interference, and that overhead lines can be an issue, which of course aren't easily fixed.

Although it seems your attenuation is too high for VDSL, and ADSL isn't likely to be improved.

Create new topic





News and reviews »

Air New Zealand Starts AI adoption with OpenAI
Posted 24-Jul-2025 16:00


eero Pro 7 Review
Posted 23-Jul-2025 12:07


BeeStation Plus Review
Posted 21-Jul-2025 14:21


eero Unveils New Wi-Fi 7 Products in New Zealand
Posted 21-Jul-2025 00:01


WiZ Introduces HDMI Sync Box and other Light Devices
Posted 20-Jul-2025 17:32


RedShield Enhances DDoS and Bot Attack Protection
Posted 20-Jul-2025 17:26


Seagate Ships 30TB Drives
Posted 17-Jul-2025 11:24


Oclean AirPump A10 Water Flosser Review
Posted 13-Jul-2025 11:05


Samsung Galaxy Z Fold7: Raising the Bar for Smartphones
Posted 10-Jul-2025 02:01


Samsung Galaxy Z Flip7 Brings New Edge-To-Edge FlexWindow
Posted 10-Jul-2025 02:01


Epson Launches New AM-C550Z WorkForce Enterprise printer
Posted 9-Jul-2025 18:22


Samsung Releases Smart Monitor M9
Posted 9-Jul-2025 17:46


Nearly Half of Older Kiwis Still Write their Passwords on Paper
Posted 9-Jul-2025 08:42


D-Link 4G+ Cat6 Wi-Fi 6 DWR-933M Mobile Hotspot Review
Posted 1-Jul-2025 11:34


Oppo A5 Series Launches With New Levels of Durability
Posted 30-Jun-2025 10:15









Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.