schools getting rural broadband initative when in vdsl area?

Forums › New Zealand Broadband › schools getting rural broadband initative when in vdsl area?

mercutio

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#113882 30-Jan-2013 20:56

out of curiosity, i was reading about schools in suburban areas getting rural broadband initiative in areas that have nearby cabinets that show as green with the vdsl area.

as a couple of examples:

Laingholm Primary School: 54 Victory Rd.
Woodlands Park school: 202 Woodlands Park.

Is this outdated information or is it now UFB or 3G?

I for one am still not convinced primary schools need net or computers at all, but hey, it's not like my tax dollars are being used for it. Oh wait a minute!

I'm curious is Auckland Central getting RBI? They've not even got vdsl or cabinets yet.

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#753485 30-Jan-2013 21:09

Both of these schools are beyond UFB reach, so will get a special fibre run under the RBI instead.

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mercutio

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#753487 30-Jan-2013 21:14

coffeebaron: Both of these schools are beyond UFB reach, so will get a special fibre run under the RBI instead.

i thought RBI was 3G?

And to that mind why is Stanmore Bay for instance inside UFB reach when it's much more distant.

It's curious because Laingholm census information says that a lot of people either commute a long distance to work, or work from home. And furhter to the point, there have been quite a few vocal people saying that they would work from home if the internet was more reliable, and faster. (when I was in Laingholm I only had 3 internet outages, and two of them were in stormy weather, and power went out so not sure if net stayed up, and one of them was more protracted when they were recabling into cabinet, took out phone and internet for about 4 hours) But I realise some modems are better at dealing with 50db attenuation etc.

Anyway, if it is fibre from the vdsl cabinet, why don't they just call it UFB (it'd be point to point UFB?)

coffeebaron

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#753491 30-Jan-2013 21:26

UFB is fibre to home / business / schools etc in urban areas. I.E. if the is UFB along your (whole) street, then any house / business etc can hook in to this.

Where there is no UFB; schools get either a run of fibre just for them or a DMR (wirless) link.

As for 3G, this is just part of the RBI.

RBI = 3G + cabinets + runs of fibre or DMR to schools.

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mercutio

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#753495 30-Jan-2013 21:32

coffeebaron: UFB is fibre to home / business / schools etc in urban areas. I.E. if the is UFB along your (whole) street, then any house / business etc can hook in to this.

Where there is no UFB; schools get either a run of fibre just for them or a DMR (wirless) link.

As for 3G, this is just part of the RBI.

RBI = 3G + cabinets + runs of fibre or DMR to schools.

I get confused. What if their is fibre to cabinets along your street but no UFB? Someone said you can connect, I'd think you can't cos there is no GPON equipment.

It's a bit confusing calling suburbs rural to my mind though.

sbiddle

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#753504 30-Jan-2013 21:50

mercutio:
coffeebaron: UFB is fibre to home / business / schools etc in urban areas. I.E. if the is UFB along your (whole) street, then any house / business etc can hook in to this.

Where there is no UFB; schools get either a run of fibre just for them or a DMR (wirless) link.

As for 3G, this is just part of the RBI.

RBI = 3G + cabinets + runs of fibre or DMR to schools.

I get confused. What if their is fibre to cabinets along your street but no UFB? Someone said you can connect, I'd think you can't cos there is no GPON equipment.

It's a bit confusing calling suburbs rural to my mind though.

P2P fibre connections are available from cabinets where appropiate linecards are fitted.

mercutio

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#753505 30-Jan-2013 21:57

sbiddle:
mercutio:
coffeebaron: UFB is fibre to home / business / schools etc in urban areas. I.E. if the is UFB along your (whole) street, then any house / business etc can hook in to this.

Where there is no UFB; schools get either a run of fibre just for them or a DMR (wirless) link.

As for 3G, this is just part of the RBI.

RBI = 3G + cabinets + runs of fibre or DMR to schools.

I get confused. What if their is fibre to cabinets along your street but no UFB? Someone said you can connect, I'd think you can't cos there is no GPON equipment.

It's a bit confusing calling suburbs rural to my mind though.

P2P fibre connections are available from cabinets where appropiate linecards are fitted.

and that cost is about 6x higher than normal gpon cost isn't it?

sbiddle

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#753585 31-Jan-2013 05:52

mercutio:
sbiddle:
mercutio:
coffeebaron: UFB is fibre to home / business / schools etc in urban areas. I.E. if the is UFB along your (whole) street, then any house / business etc can hook in to this.

Where there is no UFB; schools get either a run of fibre just for them or a DMR (wirless) link.

As for 3G, this is just part of the RBI.

RBI = 3G + cabinets + runs of fibre or DMR to schools.

I get confused. What if their is fibre to cabinets along your street but no UFB? Someone said you can connect, I'd think you can't cos there is no GPON equipment.

It's a bit confusing calling suburbs rural to my mind though.

P2P fibre connections are available from cabinets where appropiate linecards are fitted.

and that cost is about 6x higher than normal gpon cost isn't it?

It's more expensive but like all P2P services offers guaranteed CIR - buy 100Mbps and you're guaranteed 100Mbps, it's not an EIR like GPON.

Educational plans are available in both P2P and GPON.

InstallerUFB

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#753597 31-Jan-2013 07:32

just to clarify the fibre connection to schools when they are not in a UFB cabnitised area - the fibre tail is connected back to the exch (chorus areas) where they are connnected to the GPON rack via a splitter installed on the structured fibre frame.

The same system is being used to give some business access to UFB - where a fibre conection has, in the sites past, been connected

cyril7

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#753601 31-Jan-2013 07:56

Chorus through the RBI has been doing a stellar effort of rolling fibre connections to schools. I work in the SNUP program as a designer and our teams turn up at the most remote of schools to find Chorus have already dragged a fibre into a location beside the core cabinet or nearby, just need to get the N4L up and running so these small schools can get a $ sensible connection.

Cyril

mercutio

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#753649 31-Jan-2013 09:16

cyril7: Chorus through the RBI has been doing a stellar effort of rolling fibre connections to schools. I work in the SNUP program as a designer and our teams turn up at the most remote of schools to find Chorus have already dragged a fibre into a location beside the core cabinet or nearby, just need to get the N4L up and running so these small schools can get a $ sensible connection.

Cyril

i started reading up about SNUP after your post. Some of the requirements for schools seem pretty crazy...

http://www.minedu.govt.nz/~/media/MinEdu/Files/EducationSectors/PrimarySecondary/Initiatives/ICTInSchools/SNUP/MoESwitchingPolicyAndStandards.pdf

Like from there. They say that schools should have 10/100 switches with gigabit uplink, with a minimum of 16 megabytes of buffer, and 8k mac address limit, and should use lag.

with a 48 port switch running at 10/100 megabit, that much buffer really shouldn't be needed. and 8k seems a bit unreasonably high to require for a mac address limit. networks should be split before getting anywhere near that limit. and a lot of switches do 4k or 6k mac address limit. (and gigabit to the edge)

another thing I noticed was that it seemed like 10 gigabit to the edge should be kept in mind, where it's still a lot cheaper to just do multiport lag, and there can still benefit having gigabit ports, with gigabit uplink.

i've used 10 megabit, and 100 megabit for shared networks before, and really in this day and age with huge files you'd think they'd just suggest all desktops use gigabit. otherwise you end up with people wanting to save files locally.

but anyway, i suppose it's a good thing to encourage even smaller schools to have managed switches.

cyril7

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#753686 31-Jan-2013 10:11

Hi, SNUP has a contracted supply of switches from Allied Telesis these switches all meet this buffer requirement, as do switches from other accepted manufactures being 3Com/HP, D-Link and Cisco

10Gig intra cabinet links are now becoming common, 10Gig SFP+ MM modules are quite cheap, although typically we only use GigE links, essentially each 24ports of edge switching (10/100 or GigE) gets a dedicated GigE uplink to Core.

The AT switches support remote stacking so we can stack a pair of x610's at the core (using dual HDMI cables to create a 24Gb/s link between say a 24port UTP L3 core switch and 24port SFP L3 core swtich) and inturn stack to a 3rd remote x610 L3 SFP core switch via dual 10GigE links to create one core switch with ports upto 300m apart, this is now deployed in a number of larger schools and enables a bunch of edge cabinets to run back to one of the two core switch locations at either end of the campus without detriment to throughput.

Cyril

mercutio

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#753718 31-Jan-2013 10:41

cyril7: Hi, SNUP has a contracted supply of switches from Allied Telesis these switches all meet this buffer requirement, as do switches from other accepted manufactures being 3Com/HP, D-Link and Cisco

10Gig intra cabinet links are now becoming common, 10Gig SFP+ MM modules are quite cheap, although typically we only use GigE links, essentially each 24ports of edge switching (10/100 or GigE) gets a dedicated GigE uplink to Core.

The AT switches support remote stacking so we can stack a pair of x610's at the core (using dual HDMI cables to create a 24Gb/s link between say a 24port UTP L3 core switch and 24port SFP L3 core swtich) and inturn stack to a 3rd remote x610 L3 SFP core switch via dual 10GigE links to create one core switch with ports upto 300m apart, this is now deployed in a number of larger schools and enables a bunch of edge cabinets to run back to one of the two core switch locations at either end of the campus without detriment to throughput.

Cyril

what cisco switch is "affordable" with 16mb buffer? last i knew schools struggled to buy text books, let alone state of the art computers, and to spend a lot on infrastructure.

so something like that, with a price tag of around 10k? with a discount of something like 2 or 3k i imagine.
http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=1043869

althoguh that appears to be a layer 3 switch. oh right, you did say core ... it was saying layer 2 edge, for smaller schools, i think large was 1000+ ?

i realise schools like burnside high are quite large? but i thought most schools were more like 200 to 600 students?

i wonder if schools have new text books now :)

cyril7

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#753719 31-Jan-2013 10:43

Very few schools have Cisco switches for the simple reason of $, however AT, and 3com/HP would be the most common out there.

Cyril

mercutio

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#753724 31-Jan-2013 10:51

cyril7: Very few schools have Cisco switches for the simple reason of $, however AT, and 3com/HP would be the most common out there.

Cyril

yeah i realise that. there was a university in california who went with cisco when the other universities went with other manufactorers and there was a huge increase in cost.

that said, i thought schools may get second hand 2960g's or such as edge switches, with don't have anything like 16megabytes of buffer...

oh well at least they're not using netgear switches.

Zeon

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#753727 31-Jan-2013 10:52

I always get worried about stacking core switches. What has your experience been in some kind oif software bug in the stack taking down all switches in the core?

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