Rewiring for VDSL

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eXDee

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#116403 28-Apr-2013 12:25

Time to upgrade to VDSL with Snap!

At the moment we have a 5 year old ADSL2+ master splitter installed, so that will have to come out as it's not the VDSL model. It's one of the older 2 pair ones so its wired with gel splicers on a T-Join, with a cat5 lead going up to a dedicated DSL jack, and the other going to the splitter and then to the rest of the house wiring.

We're going on a naked plan with VOIP.

I would like to redo the wiring for want of the best conditions possible. The cable coming in from the street is a black pair that just comes out of the dirt under the house, and the house is from the late 70s and i'm guessing the cable coming in it hasn't been redone since then.

So a few questions...

Since we're going with VOIP and the fritz has a DECT receiver in it (assuming this works with our panasonic phones), should we just simply wire this cable directly to the DSL jackpoint and disconnect everything else?

Or should a VDSL master splitter be installed for best practice, even though we won't be using POTS?

We have an alarm system which dials out by itself, directly to phone numbers if the alarm goes off, rather than communicating with an alarm company. This will need to be wired in somehow, so at least this part of the existing wiring has to be hooked in and i'm not sure how.

Is it bad practice to connect the rest of the houses home wiring up to an ATA port on the fritzbox somehow?

I read somewhere you should avoid untwisting the wires coming in, as it can make a difference to the line quality, is this correct?

Is cat5e solid core ideal for wiring?

sbiddle

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#806688 28-Apr-2013 12:37

cat5e solid is standard for permanent wiring. Stranded cable is only used for short leads which are required to be flexible. Cable should always be kept twisted because this keeps it balanced.

If you're not using POTS I would simply remove the filter, replace the single jack next to the modem with two jacks, wire one back to the incoming line for VDSL2 and use the other pair to connect the RJ11 output of the Fritz!box to the existing jackpoints in the home.

I would advise strongly against using an alarm over VoIP. If it uses ContactID (DTMF tones) it may work, but it will never be a 100% solution. If it uses SIA (modem) it's unlikely to work. Regardless it will never be a 100% solution which in my mind isn't good enough. Your best approach is an IP adapter however you may need to charge monitoring companies to one that is serious about IP, not all the big companies offer IP monitoring as they're pretty much in denial that the world is changing.

RalphFromSnap

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#806699 28-Apr-2013 12:47

Hi eXDee,

Firstly Welcome Aboard!

This is our current advice for your situation where you will have a DSL only (No POTS from the exchange) and Snap Voice from the FritzBox, with DECT for phones and also the ability to use the ATA Ports, reticulating back into your internal wiring.

Firstly Yes, you should remove the old ADSL2+ Splitter as there will not be a combination POTS/DSL line in the mix here, and we will look to avoid any bridge taps (unless they are on the street, in which case we can deal with that) in the setup, there wont be a need for a DSL filter in this setup.

If you can identify where the black cable comes into your house, you will want to ensure that this goes straight to the jackpoint that you are connecting the Fritz Box too - and no where else, you do not want it to loop off to anywhere else within your house.

I think you stated that your alarm dials out to specific phone numbers (not to an alarm company) if possible it would be handy to connect this up to the Fon2 port on your Fritz, this will give it its own line and will allow it to dial out even if someone is using a line on the Fon1 port.

For the Fon1 port if you can connect this to where the old incoming "black cable" previously connected to your internal wiring and reticulate this to your phones around the house, the Fritz 7340/7390 ATA ports are Telepermited so the ATA will act in a similar way to the Telecom NEAX switches (voltage, RAL factor etc) so you can hook up a few phones to this.

We have spent a lot of time internally on this and have many real word scenarios where we have VDSL customers syncing at 70/10 under this setup - and the reticulation of copper to the ISP's CPE ATA ports is very common in UFB Fibre houses, and works very well. (plus you get other features like Caller ID in Call Waiting, Voicemail to email etc)

I've probably missed something here, but I'm sure others will also comment!

Hope this helps!
TheRalph.

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eXDee

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#806700 28-Apr-2013 12:49

The alarm isn't monitored with any company, it simply iteratively dials out to a list of configured phone numbers directly.

Good to hear it wouldn't be a bad idea to simply wire everything straight into the voip port on the fritz. There's already two jacks there which is handy.

eXDee

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#806704 28-Apr-2013 12:55

Oh thanks Snap, quick reply there!

Yet to make the sign up as i want to prepare the wiring first.
I'll have to get under the house and check the length of the black cable coming through, I believe it comes out under the kitchen and may be a bit short to reach where the current modem is sitting. Would i result in some loss if extending this with cat5e?

Curious about the Fon1 and Fon2 ports, even if i only have one snap VOIP line, can i place multiple outgoing calls at once, eg one through Fon1, Fon2 and then another via DECT?

Lastly i had your team on twitter do a prequal last week and they said that VDSL should be able to be provisioned on my line, reading 5dB to the ETP, i assume via chorus tool.

Line stats from a Dynalink RTA1320V6 in this current setup, SNR is currently tweaked to be low. Line is 470 or 560m to our cabinet from our driveway, depending on what which way around the block it goes. Of course actual cable distance will vary. Cabinet was installed end of 2008. Any guesses what one should expect for sync speed?

DMT Tools if thats useful at all:

RalphFromSnap

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#806707 28-Apr-2013 13:12

eXDee: Oh thanks Snap, quick reply there!

Curious about the Fon1 and Fon2 ports, even if i only have one snap VOIP line, can i place multiple outgoing calls at once, eg one through Fon1, Fon2 and then another via DECT?

At the moment you can make up to 6 calls all at once on the single Snap Plus line, I'll confirm tomorrow if this is permanent as our official product spec is 1 call (which sorry wont be a help for what I mentioned for your alarm, however 6 lines is what can be used at the moment - and if it was changed we would give plenty of notice, and other options to keep multiple lines). - I would personally really recommend getting a Fritz DECT phone, they are very cool and have a tonne of features.

With those sync rates you will get a great result on VDSL2 - you must be reasonably close to the Exchange/Cabinet! I'd expect on 8b around 10 up and 40ish down, and on 17a maybe pushing upwards of 60mbps

Re extending the copper cable, this should not be a problem - just make sure you use the proper Gel Joiners that you can get from Jaycar/Computer Dynamics etc.

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eXDee

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#806709 28-Apr-2013 13:27

Yeah it is very close, updated my post above with approx distance measures and a DMT screenshot.

We have a near new Panasonic DECT phone so will either connect it directly, or wire it in to the Fon port.
I'd be curious what the fritz phone offers, i assume it does the usual like G.722 HD voice, will check that out.

Will do some investigating of the cabling and update with info.

sbiddle

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#806715 28-Apr-2013 14:14

Fritz!fon supports G.722, but this will only be to other G.722 users on the same network (assuming Snap support G.722) as I'm not aware of Snap having any pure IP interconnects for off net SIP traffic.

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RalphFromSnap

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#806737 28-Apr-2013 15:02

sbiddle: Fritz!fon supports G.722, but this will only be to other G.722 users on the same network (assuming Snap support G.722) as I'm not aware of Snap having any pure IP interconnects for off net SIP traffic.

Hi sbiddle,

Most of our interconnects are pure IP although there are a couple of domestic interconnects which are TDM based. we have not yet enabled G.722 for Residential VoIP- even for on-net traffic, however I understand that this will be enabled soon.

TCL is one carrier we have a full SIP interconnect with. There is some info here from when TCL and WxC completed the first IP Interconnect http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=43&topicid=67512

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chevrolux

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#806784 28-Apr-2013 17:11

I think at the end of the day having G.722 is kind of a moot point as the majority are still on traditional lines.

The OP had the right idea at the start. Pair the DECT handsets with the Fritz and enjoy =D

Such an awesome box. So far no one else's CPE is better than the Fritz IMO.

eXDee

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#812246 6-May-2013 19:51

Fritzbox has arrived.

So its time to rewire tomorrow i think. The fritz has a RJ45 which snap instructs me to put a RJ11 into which i thought was odd, but i guess it fits.

At the moment the wiring from the central splitter to the modem comes to here:

I'm wondering, based on the fact ill have to run cat5e to the jack anyway, can i bypass the phone jack and just bring a cable straight into the modem with a RJ45 connector on the end? My initial thought is i can't as you need one of those master jacks with the ring capacitor, surge arrestor and resistor first. Or is this only needed for POTS?

Secondly, i have an old phone jack to the left of it, which a phone is plugged into and some skytv wiring is spliced into, all filtered off. Can i run the Fon1 out into this jack to feed all devices that are plugged in, as suggested, or will running into a jack like this 'backwards' not work?

DarthKermit

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#812265 6-May-2013 20:16

I ran a cable straight from my master splitter to my ADSL modem. No need for a phone jack as they were only about 300 mm apart anyway.

You don't need master/secondary jacks these days with modern 2-wire phone systems. The phones themselves have the ringing circuitry built in, rather than relying on a phone socket.

Whatifthespacekeyhadneverbeeninvented?

eXDee

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#812339 6-May-2013 22:08

Right. So i'll crimp a RJ45 plug on one end of some spare CAT6 i have, and connnecting the blue pair on the other end to the phone cable that's coming in using some gel splicing connectors.
This should plug straight into the DSL/TEL jack and give the best possible connection.

Though today i learned that one can plug an RJ11 into a RJ45 jack but consensus seems to be the practice works but can have alignment issues, and the idea of using a RJ45 feels nicer to me.