Netguide Article on Wellington Council Broadband initiative

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wgtnbloke

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Topic # 13116 23-Apr-2007 13:40

Hi,

I am interested to know what people here think about the WCC's intention to spend $16 - $40 million putting fibre cable around the city on the trolley bus lines.

As a Wellington ratepayer - I thought the reporter didnt check the answers our Mayor gave to a lot of questions to justify such a expenditure, eg

- does the WCC intend to set up a ISP provider using public money to compete with TCL and Xtra , or
- do they anticipate TCL and Telecom will use their cable rather than their own,
- or do they expect 3rd party providers to come in.

Also I find it hard to believe that 50% of wellington households dont have access to broadband although it wasnt clear if she was talking about no infrastructure or not current subscribers. After all everywhere the trolley bus lines go - the major providers are already there arnt they.

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Reply # 68153 23-Apr-2007 13:50

This has been the subject of heated debate for some time. Some are pro, such a Rody Drury, but it comes down to separation of network and services.

However, we had an experience here in Wellington and the company was sold recently. I am talking about CityLink and CafeNet.

Now, all is great, but will a council supplied infrastructure make it cheaper for Wellington residents, paying local taxes, to actually use broadband? Or will ISPs rent the capacity, but keep charging the same as in the rest of the country, where they have to rent this from Telecom New Zealand?

If my local tax money goes into infrastructure but I am not receiving any direct benefits, this is wrong.

Of course you could say it would benefit local businesses, overall bringing better prospects for the life in Wellington. But businesses have many different lines of credit, help from government, incubators, etc, that I as a citizen don't have.

Yes, I am in the group against it.

The council does not have know how in this business. Why enter it?

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FatTofu

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Reply # 68158 23-Apr-2007 14:13

Is this the report you guys are talking about?

http://www.wellington.govt.nz/haveyoursay/meetings/committee/Strategy_and_Policy/2007/01Mar0915/pdf/01_broadband.pdf

I found it while doing research for my assignment. Anyway, I think it's a good idea. Especially if they get to stage 3 or FTTH (Fibre to the home). They want to make up their own fibre network and make it available for ISPs to use to deliver broadband services at compeitive prices, kinda like the idea behind LLU.

freitasm

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Reply # 68164 23-Apr-2007 14:28

The part I don't like in this report is this:

The report finds that the broadband infrastructure required for achieving this vision is unlikely to be developed by the private sector within an acceptable timeframe, and that the Council should play a role in its provision. Potential roles for the Council and other stakeholders are explored in the context of Wellington City’s specific needs and unique advantages.

Governement bodies running technology projects or companies?

However I like this bit:

6. Agree that the Council’s role may also include facilitating provision of the broadband infrastructure required, and in developing demand.
7. Agree that further work be undertaken on this potential role for Council including:
a. issuing a Request for Concept document to engage potential industry partners in developing implementation options for the vision
b. engaging with key business, government and community sector stakeholders
c. consulting with the community through the 2007/08 Draft Annual Plan process
d. looking into policy changes that could be made to help achieve the vision (e.g. changes to the Subdivision and Roading codes of practice)
8. Agree that a further report on options for implementing the vision be brought back to this Committee by June 2007.

So not that bad... But they admit they've done this before:

One of the most significant outcomes of the InfoCity Strategy was the development of CityLink, a world-leading broadband infrastructure provider in the CBD.

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sbiddle

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Reply # 68166 23-Apr-2007 14:46

I think it's a big joke... I don't really worry too much however because I'm not a WCC rate payer so won't end up paying the bill! :-)

WCC want to duplicate what TelstraClear and CityLink already have. Why?

wgtnbloke

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Reply # 68170 23-Apr-2007 15:13

I agree its a big joke at rate payer expense. :-(

FYI - I went with a group of residents to talk to WCC project manager last week about this. Unfortunately they were unable to answer any of our questions or even where their cable would go other than to say it was a good idea.

They did try to sell the concept that Telecom and TCL may move to the WCC cable and so remove some of their own cables to benefit local residents with reduced visual pollution - yeh right!!

And they said that TCl would not divulge to them where they had fibre cables or not becuase that was commercially sensitive.
But the implication was that TCL doesnt have a strong fibre backbone in Wellington.

Lastly out of interest, when they say that they will:
c. consulting with the community through the 2007/08 Draft Annual Plan process
in the last 5 years - they have not made any changes to their draft annual plan as the result of submissions.

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Reply # 68171 23-Apr-2007 15:18

And Telecom... TCL and CityLink are not the only ones with fibre in Wellington. I am against this idea. The Council should focus on things like fixing the plumbing on the city water supply so we don't end up with water in the gas again...

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Reply # 68173 23-Apr-2007 15:27

wgtnbloke: And they said that TCl would not divulge to them where they had fibre cables or not becuase that was commercially sensitive.
But the implication was that TCL doesnt have a strong fibre backbone in Wellington.

This sounds like a circus already with a council that believe duplicating existing resources with no business plan is a fantastic idea.. simply because umm.. just because.. It sounds like a 90's dot com company all over again. I agree with comments Rod Drury has made in regards to governments or councils providing fibre or internet connectivy to residents however is duplicating what already exists smart?

TCL have a very large fibre backbone feeding every node end cabinet in Wellington, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that's a lot of fibre covering a large area. There is also diversity in most parts and a undersea cable running from Pt Howard across to Miramar.

Instead of WCC duplicating what's there and spreading rubbish (such as TCL or Telecom using our fibre. Yeah right.) maybe they could reach a deal with TCL and use TCL's backhaul to their cabinets, plonk their own cabinet next to the TCL node and provide rate payers with their own last mile fibre connection?

I've got an even better idea.. How about just pumping that $20 million straight into public infrastructure such as roads and transport?

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Reply # 68176 23-Apr-2007 16:00

Good to hear that Chinese Walls work in some organisations. None of Telsta's Fibre would have gone in without somebody in the council knowing.

freitasm

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Reply # 68217 23-Apr-2007 21:17

Rod's comments today...

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Tuikapo

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Reply # 69000 1-May-2007 00:48

It's a good idea, what about internet peering in Wellington? Citylink network is a free peering network you just pay to get the connection, if you are getting an extension of this network national traffic becomes a whole lot cheaper, near minimal costs, with ethernet speed connections to your ISP it isnt in wellignton yet, no one else is offering it so whats the big problem? i would be happy to recieve fibre to the home on an ethernet peered WIX network with gigabit speed connections to the ISP of my choice.

Fraktul

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Reply # 69115 1-May-2007 19:11

Just because you are peered at WIX does not mean you accept multilateral peering with any old joe blogs also peering at WIX.

Tuikapo

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Reply # 69139 1-May-2007 20:57

I didn't say that, I understand that it is up to you to peer with others, but actually you just make known routes that your traffic can go through and their are alot. My Main point as per the discussion is what is wrong with having an ethernet connection to the ISP of your choice? a bit of freedom doesn't hurt.

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Reply # 69141 1-May-2007 20:58

raytaylor

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Reply # 69234 2-May-2007 14:57

I agree with the plan.

sbiddle:
WCC want to duplicate what TelstraClear and CityLink already have. Why?

It will provide more speed and access that telecom and tcl cannot deliver over their networks.
I refer to the point that telstra very rarely run cable to back / off of streetfront sections so many people in wellington cannot get access to tcl's cable network. At the same time DSL is the other option but thats got problems of its own.

Hamilton have set up a similar system where anyone can purchase a connection to the city network. Then the way I understand it, is that an ISP can set up a presence on the network, and you pay both the council subsidy for access, and then the isp for internet.

I do however disagree with one major part of the wellington network:
Its happening in wellington, and not napier!

http://www.liteup.co.nz/ is the url for more info on the hamilton network. I hope wellington's will be much the same sort of system.

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Reply # 69240 2-May-2007 16:10

So if I get this right, where there aren't overhead cables (e.g. my part of Churton Park that doesn't have power poles at all), they'll potentially rip up the roads? I don't think any of this type work in Wellington have a particularly good history... lengthy delays, damage to existing infrastructure, etc.

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