UFB modem/router? what should I be looking for?

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NonprayingMantis

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Topic # 145416 17-May-2014 09:30

I don't have any experience fiddling around with UFB (can only get VDSL at my address) but a friend of mine is asking me about choosing a different modem for UFB from the one he will get from his ISP and, whilst I can talk to him about various WiFi options etc, I have no idea what I should be looking for in the specs to get something that will work with UFB, so I figured I would ask you guys here :-P

I think I may be totally confused as so many people (including the RSPs!) seem use the words 'modem' and 'router' interchangeably, but am I right in thinking that the ONT the LFC installs essentially is the modem for UFB? so all I really need is a router? If so, does that mean basically any current router will 'work' (even the cheapo $30-40 ones, albeit not optimally). So anything with a WAN port is compatible?
e.g.
http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?z=p&p=NETNGR9210&name=Netgear-WNR1000-N150-Wireless-Router-Five-10100-(1

Does the ISP he is with make any difference to that?
Does the LFC make any difference?

Thanks in advance.

sbiddle

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Reply # 1046854 17-May-2014 10:03

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For a router to work it needs to support VLAN10 tagging unless your RSP supports untagged UNI ports.

Probably 90% of Ethernet routers on the market do not support this functionality.

myfullflavour

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Reply # 1046855 17-May-2014 10:10

sbiddle: For a router to work it needs to support VLAN10 tagging unless your RSP supports untagged UNI ports.

Probably 90% of Ethernet routers on the market do not support this functionality.

What sbiddle said.

You'll probably have more luck with the smaller RSPs in terms of requesting an untagged UNI port. I know it's something we do on request.

NonprayingMantis

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Reply # 1046856 17-May-2014 10:26

myfullflavour:
sbiddle: For a router to work it needs to support VLAN10 tagging unless your RSP supports untagged UNI ports.

Probably 90% of Ethernet routers on the market do not support this functionality.

What sbiddle said.

You'll probably have more luck with the smaller RSPs in terms of requesting an untagged UNI port. I know it's something we do on request.

Thanks guys,

so what is an 'untagged uni port'? and what is the downside (if any) of requesting it from his RSP?

sdavisnz

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Reply # 1046857 17-May-2014 10:26

Hi, yes you are right in thinking the router must have a wan port on the device, but as sbiddle said it must also support vlan tagging for all big ISP's.

here is a google drive spreadsheet that has listed router options for custom install.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsEaMHWu3hWedHhhdjdEZkhiNTZIYVJKd0pidzB5REE&usp=sharing

Voice gives context

sbiddle

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Reply # 1046858 17-May-2014 10:28

If you have an uptagged UNI port you'll have no 802.1q VLAN therefore no 801.1p tagging, therefore no high priority queue (the CIR) on your connection.

While Chorus and all the LFCs support untagged UNI ports your ISP needs to be willing to support this, certainly none of the bigger players will offer it.

If you want a good device the Zyxel VMG8924's are pretty good, dual band WiFi so you'll have usable WiFi with 5Ghz (assuming you have devices that support this) and GigE ports.

sdavisnz

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Reply # 1046859 17-May-2014 10:31

NonprayingMantis:
myfullflavour:
sbiddle: For a router to work it needs to support VLAN10 tagging unless your RSP supports untagged UNI ports.

Probably 90% of Ethernet routers on the market do not support this functionality.

What sbiddle said.

You'll probably have more luck with the smaller RSPs in terms of requesting an untagged UNI port. I know it's something we do on request.

Thanks guys,

so what is an 'untagged uni port'? and what is the downside (if any) of requesting it from his RSP?

i think isp tag particualar traffic like voip or voip programs like skype and tag torreents and p2p so they can give the CIR (commited information rate) priority over the more importaant applications rather than p2p traffic. something along those lines anyway.

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ripdog

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Reply # 1046863 17-May-2014 10:35

I'll just mention that I've been very happy with my setup of an Asus RT-AC66U for excellent routing and WiFi (a common weakness), with a Cisco SPA112 for analog phones. I use these with Orcon. Install the Merlin custom firmware on the router, gives a bunch of extra options without sacrificing stability.

NonprayingMantis

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Reply # 1046864 17-May-2014 10:39

sbiddle: If you have an uptagged UNI port you'll have no 802.1q VLAN therefore no 801.1p tagging, therefore no high priority queue (the CIR) on your connection.

While Chorus and all the LFCs support untagged UNI ports your ISP needs to be willing to support this, certainly none of the bigger players will offer it.

If you want a good device the Zyxel VMG8924's are pretty good, dual band WiFi so you'll have usable WiFi with 5Ghz (assuming you have devices that support this) and GigE ports.

ok, (and this is where I am getting more confused I think) I understood that the CIR only applied to certain kinds of traffic specifically designated by the RSP - which usually means only RSP provided voice, and maybe RSP provided video (like VF TV). So it has no impact on 'normal' internet traffic, like youtube, netflix etc.

(at least, that's what I understood from your blog http://www.geekzone.co.nz/sbiddle/8252 )

If that is the case, and my friend wants to use none of those RSP provided services (just his mobile for voice, or Skype, and he's not with VF for TV) , does this mean there is no actual benefit from having tagged traffic, so he could safely go to a smaller RSP and request that with no downside, and this would then mean he can go ahead and use whatever router he wanted?

sbiddle

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Reply # 1046969 17-May-2014 13:46

NonprayingMantis:
ok, (and this is where I am getting more confused I think) I understood that the CIR only applied to certain kinds of traffic specifically designated by the RSP - which usually means only RSP provided voice, and maybe RSP provided video (like VF TV). So it has no impact on 'normal' internet traffic, like youtube, netflix etc.

(at least, that's what I understood from your blog http://www.geekzone.co.nz/sbiddle/8252 )

If that is the case, and my friend wants to use none of those RSP provided services (just his mobile for voice, or Skype, and he's not with VF for TV) , does this mean there is no actual benefit from having tagged traffic, so he could safely go to a smaller RSP and request that with no downside, and this would then mean he can go ahead and use whatever router he wanted?

Pretty much correct.

The end user has the ability to tag any of their own upstream traffic to access the high priority queue - it's simply a matter of tagging this with the correct 802.1p tag, however any traffic in excess of the CIR be immediately dropped rather than being queued so if you're going to be doing this you really need to understand what you're doing.

The end user has no ability over what traffic uses the high priority queue for downstream traffic, that's up to the RSP to tag traffic they want.

Inphinity

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Reply # 1047047 17-May-2014 15:45

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Asus RT-AC66U supports the required VLAN tagging for UFB where Chorus is the LFC, and has a good range of features & performance. It's about $300 retail.

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alexj

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Reply # 1047135 17-May-2014 18:34

Also AFAIK untagged tops out at 100/50 access speeds. 100/100 and upwards require tagged.