New Fibre install: Need pass-through device from ONT to AirPort Extreme. Reccomendations?

Forums › New Zealand Broadband › New Fibre install: Need pass-through device from ONT to AirPort Extreme. Reccomendations?

MrNixt

8 posts

Wannabe Geek

#154494 29-Oct-2014 21:47

Hi every/any-one,

OK, so my fibre was installed today. ONT mounted, and a new HG659 modem/router installed as well (replaced the Vodafone Station, which I guess was only for ADSL connections). Yippee for 30Mbs!

I have an all-Apple environment, and want to eliminate the HG659 from my home network. Why? Because I cannot set the HG659 to 'pass-through' mode - which forces me to use the HG659 as my router, and relegates my AirPort Extreme to being merely an access point on the network that the HG659 manages.

Since the VF supplied device is crippled (as far as user-accessible abilities), I want to get rid of it. But the AirPort does not have VLAN tagging ability!

That leaves me in a bad spot - I don't know what devices out there on the market will do what I want, which is simply to satisfy the VF requirements for connecting to their network and just pass off the VF-assigned IP to the AirPort Extreme - letting the AirPort manage my home LAN (wired and wireless).

Any input or explanation or ideas or "hey I did exactly the same thing with..." would be very much appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

sbiddle

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#1164686 29-Oct-2014 21:52

$30 2nd hand VLAN capable switch (lots on Trademe) or a cheap Mikrotik device.

The only problem with both solutions (no offence intended) is that if you have to ask what the solution is, you're probably going to struggle to configure either option to work.

PJ48

295 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1164691 29-Oct-2014 21:57

I have an all Apple environment at home with multiple Airport Extreme/Express units connected via ethernet to provide a whole of house roaming network and Airplay system, and have been very satisfied just leaving the Airport Extremes in Bridge mode and let the (in my case) Spark provided router do all the DHCP/NAT tasks as well as the VLAN tagging. All the other internal stuff I manage through the Airport Utility.

What extra stuff do you need your Airports to do? How critical is it for them do take over the DHCP/NAT work?

nitrotech

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#1164693 29-Oct-2014 22:02

PJ48: I have an all Apple environment at home with multiple Airport Extreme/Express units connected via ethernet to provide a whole of house roaming network and Airplay system, and have been very satisfied just leaving the Airport Extremes in Bridge mode and let the (in my case) Spark provided router do all the DHCP/NAT tasks as well as the VLAN tagging. All the other internal stuff I manage through the Airport Utility.

What extra stuff do you need your Airports to do? How critical is it for them do take over the DHCP/NAT work?

Same - I set the airport up for a client in exactly the same way - works well - just disable the WiFi on the Huawei configure the airport in bridge mode and you're away

MrNixt

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#1164703 29-Oct-2014 22:13

sbiddle: $30 2nd hand VLAN capable switch (lots on Trademe) or a cheap Mikrotik device.
The only problem with both solutions (no offence intended) is that if you have to ask what the solution is, you're probably going to struggle to configure either option to work.

I'm fine climbing a learning curve.

But of course the climb is easier if those above me reach back and help me up... I have two switches in my network, but they're dumb - they are *just* switches. Does a VLAn capable switch have an HTML interface like a router or modem/router? Come on, help me learn!

MrNixt

8 posts

Wannabe Geek

#1164708 29-Oct-2014 22:17

PJ48: I have an all Apple environment at home with multiple Airport Extreme/Express units connected via ethernet to provide a whole of house roaming network and Airplay system, and have been very satisfied just leaving the Airport Extremes in Bridge mode and let the (in my case) Spark provided router do all the DHCP/NAT tasks as well as the VLAN tagging. All the other internal stuff I manage through the Airport Utility.

What extra stuff do you need your Airports to do? How critical is it for them do take over the DHCP/NAT work?

It's not so much I want it to do 'extra' stuff - I just want my network to be mine.

And since every ISP-provided device I have EVER been supplied with requires frequent hard-reboots to keep working properly, I want this new cheap device out of the setup. The AirPort just doesn't act up like these ISP-supplied routers do! So screw it - I want their equipment out the door.

MrNixt

8 posts

Wannabe Geek

#1164711 29-Oct-2014 22:20

nitrotech:
PJ48: I have an all Apple environment at home with multiple Airport Extreme/Express units connected via ethernet to provide a whole of house roaming network and Airplay system, and have been very satisfied just leaving the Airport Extremes in Bridge mode and let the (in my case) Spark provided router do all the DHCP/NAT tasks as well as the VLAN tagging. All the other internal stuff I manage through the Airport Utility.

What extra stuff do you need your Airports to do? How critical is it for them do take over the DHCP/NAT work?

Same - I set the airport up for a client in exactly the same way - works well - just disable the WiFi on the Huawei configure the airport in bridge mode and you're away

This is how I am currently set up. And you're right -it works well enough. Until I need to power cycle the f***ing modem/router and move the cabinetry again to get to it. I want LAN control on my own devices, devices that don't need me to unplug them every ten days.

MrNixt

8 posts

Wannabe Geek

#1164716 29-Oct-2014 22:28

Wanted to add this:

I do not now nor do I intend to use the VOIP offered by the ISPs.

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PJ48

295 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1164722 29-Oct-2014 22:31

MrNixt:
PJ48: I have an all Apple environment at home with multiple Airport Extreme/Express units connected via ethernet to provide a whole of house roaming network and Airplay system, and have been very satisfied just leaving the Airport Extremes in Bridge mode and let the (in my case) Spark provided router do all the DHCP/NAT tasks as well as the VLAN tagging. All the other internal stuff I manage through the Airport Utility.

What extra stuff do you need your Airports to do? How critical is it for them do take over the DHCP/NAT work?

It's not so much I want it to do 'extra' stuff - I just want my network to be mine. And since every ISP-provided device I have EVER been supplied with requires frequent hard-reboots to keep working properly, I want this new cheap device out of the setup. The AirPort just doesn't act up like these ISP-supplied routers do! So screw it - I want their equipment out the door.

Can I just reassure you that I have never had a single reboot from my Telecom supplied router since I hooked up to UFB well over 12 months ago now. It is a Pace Gateway V5542 with Gigabit LAN. A lot of people have complained about this unit on GZ, but it has been rock solid stable for me. When I was on ADSL I also experienced weekly reboot and hangs with my old equipment. So...I don't know whether UFB is inherently more stable ( I suspect yes), but you may find you have absolutely no problems just leaving the Huawei as is, and running the Airports in bridge mode.

Like you, when I first hooked up to UFB I did a huge amount of searching to see if I could just run Apple gear. After while, when I had been told "no" often enough, I realised I didnt actually have a problem anyway, due to the amazing stability of the UFB supplied router...

sbiddle

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#1164776 30-Oct-2014 07:32

MrNixt:
sbiddle: $30 2nd hand VLAN capable switch (lots on Trademe) or a cheap Mikrotik device.
The only problem with both solutions (no offence intended) is that if you have to ask what the solution is, you're probably going to struggle to configure either option to work.

I'm fine climbing a learning curve. But of course the climb is easier if those above me reach back and help me up... I have two switches in my network, but they're dumb - they are *just* switches. Does a VLAn capable switch have an HTML interface like a router or modem/router? Come on, help me learn!

Many switches do, many don't. Really just depends what you're buying.

eXDee

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#1164829 30-Oct-2014 09:30

As per above, any managed switch or little mikrotik router with VLAN tagging capability. Tag the WAN side interface with VLAN VID 10.
As for how to do this, depends what device you're using. If you're not bad at picking up on technical things, you should be able to manage with some guidance.

jnimmo

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#1164866 30-Oct-2014 10:28

Could grab something like this switch (unless you want a bigger one?)
http://www.trademe.co.nz/computers/networking-modems/hubs-switches/auction-799312699.htm

Would be an OK buy if you got it close to reserve.

For the Netgear GS..

Reset factory defaults, find out default IP address the switch gets, plug a machine into port #3 or above
Open the web interface for switch
- Go to the switching tab > VLAN > Advanced > VLAN Configuration
- Add a VLAN with ID 10, type in UFB as the name and hit add
Go to the VLAN membership page, select VLAN ID 10
- Expand the port dropdown (horrible user interface)
- Click on port #1 and set it to T (tagged). Connect this port to the ONT.
- Click on port #2 and set it to U (untagged). Connect this port to the Airport WAN.
Go to the Port PVID Configuration page.
- Change G1 PVID to 10
- Change G2 PVID to 10
You can connect port #3 of the switch to one of the Airport LAN ports if you want to make use of the remaining 5 switchports.
Label the ports to make future troubleshooting easier

Hopefully I haven't missed out any steps..

jnimmo

1097 posts

Uber Geek

#1164876 30-Oct-2014 10:39

Also some other threads on the topic

EDIT: Please send an Enhancement Request to Apple here and ask them to add VLAN tagging for PPPoE connections

raytaylor

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#1165359 30-Oct-2014 22:01

PJ48: I have an all Apple environment at home with multiple Airport Extreme/Express units connected via ethernet to provide a whole of house roaming network and Airplay system, and have been very satisfied just leaving the Airport Extremes in Bridge mode and let the (in my case) Spark provided router do all the DHCP/NAT tasks as well as the VLAN tagging. All the other internal stuff I manage through the Airport Utility.

What extra stuff do you need your Airports to do? How critical is it for them do take over the DHCP/NAT work?

Thats what we do - our routers need to be used, so to eliminate double natting we just tell customers to put their airports into bridge mode and all is well.

Ray Taylor

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MrNixt

8 posts

Wannabe Geek

#1166325 1-Nov-2014 09:52

Thank you to all responders - I have tried to mark a number of the replies as answers, hope I've done that properly.

As a closing thought:

If anyone reading this can feed back to the ISPs (if you're an installer/contractor/support worker or whatever) - We consumers should have a choice about this, and we should have a choice that does NOT require us to spend additional money and do "Network Administration"-level stuff in the guts of the equipment.

The solution is as easy as pie - enable "pass-through" on the existing supplied equipment. Stupidly simple. I've had ISP equipment in the past that allowed this, and it seems damn likely that the current routers they supply have the capability buried in there somewhere... Yet it's not available to the consumer. That's just crap.

So, if any of you have a way to feed back into the ISPs decision making -please do.

sbiddle

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#1166348 1-Nov-2014 10:23

MrNixt: Thank you to all responders - I have tried to mark a number of the replies as answers, hope I've done that properly. As a closing thought: If anyone reading this can feed back to the ISPs (if you're an installer/contractor/support worker or whatever) - We consumers should have a choice about this, and we should have a choice that does NOT require us to spend additional money and do "Network Administration"-level stuff in the guts of the equipment. The solution is as easy as pie - enable "pass-through" on the existing supplied equipment. Stupidly simple. I've had ISP equipment in the past that allowed this, and it seems damn likely that the current routers they supply have the capability buried in there somewhere... Yet it's not available to the consumer. That's just crap. So, if any of you have a way to feed back into the ISPs decision making -please do.

This isn't the solution - your post shows you don't fully understand the actual issue.

UFB and other metro Ethernet/GPON networks virtually everywhere in the world require 802.1q tagging as a default. Without 802.1q tagging you can't have 802.1p tagging to define an EIR and a CIR for best effort and high priority traffic. There is no such thing as "passthru" as you're suggesting it should happen - and no way there really could be. It's nothing like the ADSL world where the modem was acting purely as a half or full bridge.

Companies such as Apple don't support 802.1q tagging on their products. If you want to use an Apple product the solution is to ask Apple why they don't support this. Most other manufacturers are introducing support for 802.1q tagging as it's now becoming pretty much a stock standard requirement for such networks globally.

There are some ISPs out there who will support untagged UNI ports, the downside of this is that you lose your CIR component of your connection.