Commerce Commission pricing set for UBA

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r33ks

75 posts

Master Geek

#15564 29-Aug-2007 10:57

Looks like pricing has been set for UBA.

http://www.comcom.govt.nz//MediaCentre/MediaReleases/200708/commissionissuesdraftdetermination.aspx

Interesting that they are working towards a basic service and enhanced service (for VoIP traffic), and the pricing does not include provision for low upstream speeds, it's full speed up and down only.

timestyles

424 posts

Ultimate Geek

#84241 29-Aug-2007 11:16

Thank you for posting this. I am not up to speed with all the different definitions so can someone please say what unbundled bitstream is? My guess is that it means you (ie an independant ISP) can feed data into a specific telephone exchange (ie you setup your own microwave link) and then use Telecom's line to send it to the customer, who may or not have a phone line with Telecom. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Zimsar10

210 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user

#84244 29-Aug-2007 11:21

I think those prices are very high & very disappointing as a result. Even for a Basic NDSL Service the price is the same as what you pay for a landline now, which of course doesn't include the cost of VOIP service & the costs associated with Telecoms local loop network access, please correct if I'm wrong.

For those who want to know if they are Urban or Rural, details can be viewed here: Link

(Moderator edit (th): fixed link, as it broke page formatting)

Zimsar10

210 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user

#84246 29-Aug-2007 11:35

timestyles: Thank you for posting this. I am not up to speed with all the different definitions so can someone please say what unbundled bitstream is? My guess is that it means you (ie an independant ISP) can feed data into a specific telephone exchange (ie you setup your own microwave link) and then use Telecom's line to send it to the customer, who may or not have a phone line with Telecom. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

All the information was supplied in the link that r33ks posted:

Unbundled Bitstream Access (UBA) Service is a wholesale broadband service that allows telecommunications companies to supply a range of broadband services to retail customers. The UBA service is provided over the standard copper pairs (telephone line) that run from a Telecom telephone exchange to an end user’s home. The service is accessed by using Telecom’s equipment, unlike the UCLL service which uses an access seeker’s own equipment.

The Unbundled Copper Local Loop (UCLL) service is a wholesale service that allows telecommunications companies to supply a range of broadband services to retail customers using Telecom’s standard copper pairs (telephone line) that run from a Telecom telephone exchange to an end-user’s home.

The UCLL Co-location service allows other operators to access Telecom’s exchanges to install their own equipment so that they can use the UCLL service.

The UCLL and UBA Backhaul services refer to the transmission capacity in Telecom’s network necessary to support the UCLL and UBA services.

TinyTim

1042 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#84250 29-Aug-2007 12:12

ZIMsar10: I think those prices are very high & very disappointing as a result. Even for a Basic NDSL Service the price is the same as what you pay for a landline now, which of course doesn't include the cost of VOIP service & the costs associated with Telecoms local loop network access, please correct if I'm wrong.

What do you pay now for voice+DSL? Vodafone is $61/month (Orcon is $80 but includes calls). With NDSL you'll pay $44.19 (urban) + ISP's margin (a few dollars) + VoIP ($11 for VFX, say). Should be comparable.

Tough if you're not an urban customer though.

I see the difference between UBA with monthly access (equivalent to current UBS) is $16.49 (urban) or $32.20 (non urban) - the cost of ULL, from the earlier draft determination. Something makes sense!

Zimsar10

210 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user

#84266 29-Aug-2007 13:38

TinyTim:
ZIMsar10: I think those prices are very high & very disappointing as a result. Even for a Basic NDSL Service the price is the same as what you pay for a landline now, which of course doesn't include the cost of VOIP service & the costs associated with Telecoms local loop network access, please correct if I'm wrong.

What do you pay now for voice+DSL? Vodafone is $61/month (Orcon is $80 but includes calls). With NDSL you'll pay $44.19 (urban) + ISP's margin (a few dollars) + VoIP ($11 for VFX, say). Should be comparable.

Tough if you're not an urban customer though.

I see the difference between UBA with monthly access (equivalent to current UBS) is $16.49 (urban) or $32.20 (non urban) - the cost of ULL, from the earlier draft determination. Something makes sense!

Currently I'm with TelstraClear PDQ MAX/MAX with interleaving off 10GB Data Cap & I live in an Urban area:

$44 for MAX/MAX plus $11.95 for 10GB of Data $55.95 (I usually stay within my Data Cap)
TelstraClear HomePlan Landline $48.61 (98% of tolls are made with my Vodafone mobile)

Grand Total: $104.56incl GST

NDSL proposed offer:

First of all, I'm a bit confused by the what they mean exactly with their proposed Enhanced UBA 40kb/s & 90kb/s Services. Presumably they provide a gauranteed level of performance with each variant of the Enhanced UBA Service? If so, this is what I ould go for, bearing in mind that some prices are not yet confirmed.

Enhanced UBA 90kb/s $60.45 Urban
ISP VOIP addon $15.00 (Estimated)
Telecom access charge $15.00 (Estimated, ?? if this applies)
Data Cap cost $15.00 - 20GB (Estimated, ?? if this is an addon)

Grand Total: $105.45incl GST

So potentially, there could be absolutely no benefit whatsoever with NDSL pricing, on the basis that you are a customer that wants the best Enhanced UBA you can possibly get. In summary, this whole NDSL could be a major fizzer for some people, whilst others might save ~$20 depending on where they live.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but this at least on the face of it & with the current information available, looks to be very disappointing.

TinyTim

1042 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#84273 29-Aug-2007 13:51

ZIMsar10:

Enhanced UBA 90kb/s $60.45 Urban

Agreed you'd probably want this (I haven't read the doc but I assume it's a guaranteed minimum)

Also - excl. GST.

ZIMsar10:

ISP VOIP addon $15.00 (Estimated)

Ok, but note VFX is $10 (excl. GST)

Telecom access charge $15.00 (Estimated, ?? if this applies)

I don't think so, the UBA price already includes the cost of the copper plus the cost of the wholesale DSL, so there's nothing else to pay.

Data Cap cost $15.00 - 20GB (Estimated, ?? if this is an addon)

No idea. Assume this also includes general ISP costs.

Revised Grand Total: ~$85 **PLUS GST** ($96 incl. GST)

(I'm not trying to defend the determination, I don't think it's perfect by any means.)

Zimsar10

210 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user

#84274 29-Aug-2007 14:00

TinyTim:

Revised Grand Total: ~$85 **PLUS GST** ($96 incl. GST)

(I'm not trying to defend the determination, I don't think it's perfect by any means.)

So, for my scenario, a total saving of..........wait for it........... $8.56

What a waste of time, with all the hype associated with this NDSL, in my case at least, it's hardly worth it.

However, I still would go down the NDSL path just to get the Enhanced 90kb/s QoS version, with I also understand utilises GigE for backhaul, whereas the basic version does not.

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TinyTim

1042 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#84322 29-Aug-2007 19:18

ZIMsar10:So, for my scenario, a total saving of..........wait for it........... $8.56

What a waste of time, with all the hype associated with this NDSL, in my case at least, it's hardly worth it.

However, I still would go down the NDSL path just to get the Enhanced 90kb/s QoS version, with I also understand utilises GigE for backhaul, whereas the basic version does not.

But if TCL came to you and said that your PDQ package now cost $96 for all that extra quality you would take it wouldn't you? Presumably this is what TCL is going to do: stop reselling Telecom's home line service (for 3% margin or whatever it is), and provide the service itself.

And even better - if they go UCLL and install their own DSLAMs, and if you get sufficient speed, you'll probably get a triple play service as well. (And perhaps eventually a quadruple play service too which no-one else can do without bundling Sky. TCL is in a position to do some really great stuff. Can they pull it off this time? But I digress...)

Zimsar10

210 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user

#84351 29-Aug-2007 21:35

TinyTim:
ZIMsar10:So, for my scenario, a total saving of..........wait for it........... $8.56

What a waste of time, with all the hype associated with this NDSL, in my case at least, it's hardly worth it.

However, I still would go down the NDSL path just to get the Enhanced 90kb/s QoS version, with I also understand utilises GigE for backhaul, whereas the basic version does not.

But if TCL came to you and said that your PDQ package now cost $96 for all that extra quality you would take it wouldn't you? Presumably this is what TCL is going to do: stop reselling Telecom's home line service (for 3% margin or whatever it is), and provide the service itself.

And even better - if they go UCLL and install their own DSLAMs, and if you get sufficient speed, you'll probably get a triple play service as well. (And perhaps eventually a quadruple play service too which no-one else can do without bundling Sky. TCL is in a position to do some really great stuff. Can they pull it off this time? But I digress...)

I have no faith in TelstraClear to pull anything off of significance to the end user, outside of the Wellington, Kaipati Coast & Christchurch cabled areas (Tauranga Unplugged anyone? - & no I don't buy their excuse).

The interesting thing with these Enhanced UBA's will be that if the service is not delivered as they say it should be, then what happens? I've heard there is a independent body that will be setup to tackle consumer complaints related to telecommunications company's, different from what we what we are currently offered.

kfella2000

495 posts

Ultimate Geek

#84366 29-Aug-2007 22:46

For those of you who are interested Maverick has put a post in the Worldxchange xnet/vfx forum of a starting point of what we will be paying for the vfx service bundled with naked bitstream

kfella2000

495 posts

Ultimate Geek

#84383 30-Aug-2007 06:31

Incidentally too I was looking at xnet vfx FAQs and on there one question asks what happens if someone goes over their data cap and gets throttled back to 64 kbps and the answer was that the vfx service needs less than half of the 64 kbps to operate so with that in mind I would probably say that the 40 kbps enhanced service would be sufficient to sustain the vfx service.

mcraenz

1140 posts

Uber Geek

#84402 30-Aug-2007 09:51

Commerce Commission : It is anticipated that the final determination will be issued in December.

Does that mean we won't be able to get NakedDSL+VOIP packages until December+? I was under the impression that it was all go from late September?? :-(

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nzbnw

2374 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Spark NZ

#84415 30-Aug-2007 11:11

mcraenz: Does that mean we won't be able to get NakedDSL+VOIP packages until December+? I was under the impression that it was all go from late September?? :-(

Telecom will ahead of any regulation provide a basic nDSL service from September, and an advanced service from December. If the final ruling was delivered in December, then there should be some allowance for everyone to get their stuff together ready for launch. So in both cases Telecom should be delivering nDSL to Wholesale customers before regulation requires it to-do so.

nzbnw

timestyles

424 posts

Ultimate Geek

#84419 30-Aug-2007 11:25

This is off topic but the whole 'model' for getting broadband to a consumers household is basically flawed. There are about 100 houses on my block. If cable were passed around my block through back yards, along fences etc or using optical to a central point or a mesh-type Wi-Fi on power polls, data could be distributed less expensively. Fibre optic cable would connect the central point to the internet as a whole.

Calculating with these charges and having a 5 year return on investment that means that basic broadband service is connected to $1500 worth of equipment or installation costs. That value excludes standard phone service.