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# 21092 15-Apr-2008 16:36
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Computerworld Article

Ok freitasm before you get your big ban stick out i have read the sticky! This isnt a discussion on how one can/should/would avoid copyright etc. More a thread on the new law and what geekzone members think of it.

So fellow geekzoners what do you think?

I think the isp's should stay out of it, it isnt there place to police the internet and disconnect customers. In saying that whos job would that be?

I for one will be buggered.. I live and work in a highschool boarding hostel where rampant copyright infringement is done, do you know how hard that is too block!! i have the router firewall blocking pretty much all tcp ports along with kerio winroute firewall, pesky old limewire and bittorrent will still find ports to go out on..) I pitty the universitys etc, they will be changing isp's daily.....

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# 123717 15-Apr-2008 16:44
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No problem with this discussion. The sticky is more to do with people who came here complaining about being banned by their ISPs, while pretending they had never downloaded copyrighted content, claiming the ISPs were banning them "for nothing".




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  # 123737 15-Apr-2008 18:00
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I just organised a crime by test message. It is now Vodafone's responsibility to stop me from using their network.

OK, so I didn't really commit any crime, but the point is telco's, ISP etc should not be the ones that carry the responsibility here. Sure, they can do their bit to help law enforcement out, even refuse service to customers that abuse their network, but they should not have to police how their network is used.

I can hope in my car and drive at 150kph, and maybe I'll get pulled up by a cop and given a ticket, but the LTSA shouldn't be forced to put speed bumps every where to make this activity impossible.

It should always be the law vs the people who break it. Not the highway providers of where it happens.




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  # 123744 15-Apr-2008 18:24
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The problem being is we may not have a choice, everybody is aware of our policy and we act on it now so it could be Business as usual , it does cost time and money for us to do for nil return so this a not something we wish to do by choice.




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  # 123745 15-Apr-2008 18:25
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Quoting from the Computer World artical:

These clauses implement what is described in the international ISP community as a “notice and take down” regime, and differs from InternetNZ’s suggested policy of “notice and notice”.

Under that plan a notice from the copyright owner to the ISP would simply have been passed on to the alleged infringer and the dispute left to those two parties with the ISP having no further obligation.

There is now additional work required by ISPs to offer their services whilst comply with this new legislation. Who will end up paying for this? RIANZ?

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  # 123764 15-Apr-2008 19:03
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MED site:Digital Technology and the Copyright Act

http://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/new+copyright+law+new+technologies

Copyright (New Technologies) Bill

I have no comment on the changes currently as I am still looking at the changes.

I think it's rough that the isp's have to police the net.

Will we have a takedown notice like system the that states have?

Scoop also covered the story.

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  # 123808 15-Apr-2008 20:23
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maverick: The problem being is we may not have a choice, everybody is aware of our policy and we act on it now so it could be Business as usual , it does cost time and money for us to do for nil return so this a not something we wish to do by choice.

Also makes you loose customers, so i can see why ISP's would previously ignore them. Even if they are bandwidth leeching they are still paying the company money.

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  # 123834 15-Apr-2008 21:36
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I love the anti-tpm measures.  Nothing like making it illegal to exercise fair use.

What constitutes a TPM?  Does iTunes break these rules?  Does it break the rules for those Sony, "copyprotected" audio CDs?

I think it will be interesting to see how this is enforced.

The anti-tpm stuff would seem to catch (off the top of my head):

1) anyone selling dreambox free view systems (or clones)
2) anyone selling chipped DVD players
3) modded iphones

Fun!  Because I know I want to be stuck with Region 4 release schedules!




 
 
 
 


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  # 123841 15-Apr-2008 21:47
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(from the stuff article)

- It continues the 9 month parallel importation ban on films from their international release date (which was set in legislation to expire on 31 October 2008). The Bill puts in place the 9 month ban until 31 October 2013.

- The purpose of the ban is to encourage investment in and the promotion of film production, distribution and exhibition industries and to protect cinema ticket sales by ensuring a film’s cinematic exhibition does not coincide with its availability on video tape or in DVD format.


I can't believe this.  The reason that DVD releases are slow is because of government legislation?

Wow.  Just wow.

And I'm still breaking the law by format shifting video.  Nuts.  So much for all those people converting DVDs to their ipods/etc.






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  # 123842 15-Apr-2008 21:48
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The anti-tpm stuff is laughable.. inadvertently ive sold several pieces of software that have broken this law and now my clients are liable for $150,000 fines! (software in question is anydvd which was sold to get around region codes, but also disables macrovision etc). I would also fall under this law with my modded xbox which wasnt illegal, but i assume is now.. im guessing all modded xboxs and modchips must be taken off trademe, however at present there are over 50 listed.

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  # 123862 15-Apr-2008 22:45
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Decompilation of computer program
  • (1) The lawful user of a copy of a computer program expressed in a low level language does not infringe copyright in the program by decompiling it, if the conditions in subsection (2) are met.


Nice, if you buy it, it's yours to hack.


Copying for educational purposes of literary, dramatic, musical, or artistic works or typographical arrangements
  • Section 44 is amended by inserting the following subsection after subsection (4):

    • (4A) A copy of a work made in accordance with subsections (3) and (4) may be communicated to a person who is a student or other person who is to receive, is receiving, or has received, a lesson that relates to the work.

So I'm still able learn, inspire and be inspired. How will my ISP know that content I view, is viewed under Section 44 conditions.

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  # 123867 15-Apr-2008 22:55
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jpollock: The anti-tpm stuff would seem to catch (off the top of my head):

1) anyone selling dreambox free view systems (or clones)
2) anyone selling chipped DVD players
3) modded iphones

Fun! Because I know I want to be stuck with Region 4 release schedules!


The anti tpm stuff specifically excludes region control or "or system to the extent that it controls geographic market segmentation" from its scope.

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  # 123896 16-Apr-2008 07:23
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I haven't had time to read the entire legislation yet, but are there changes to storing content gathered from the net via automated methods much like the search engines do? What is the standing on this? As it seems like the search engines must breach copyright law a lot by keeping a copy of the website they crawl.

As for the new ISP part, I don't think its a huge deal, and like maverick said Xnet have been doing it for a long time running. From my understanding (which may be limited) It doesn't involve the ISP "policing the net" as people have called it, as they don't have to take any added action to catch the offender in the act, instead they are to assist a 3rd party that claims so? And giving someone a warning once is enough to make them think twice or lose thier connection (or become more creative).

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  # 123912 16-Apr-2008 08:56
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adventdesigns: I haven't had time to read the entire legislation yet, but are there changes to storing content gathered from the net via automated methods much like the search engines do? What is the standing on this? As it seems like the search engines must breach copyright law a lot by keeping a copy of the website they crawl.

As for the new ISP part, I don't think its a huge deal, and like maverick said Xnet have been doing it for a long time running. From my understanding (which may be limited) It doesn't involve the ISP "policing the net" as people have called it, as they don't have to take any added action to catch the offender in the act, instead they are to assist a 3rd party that claims so? And giving someone a warning once is enough to make them think twice or lose thier connection (or become more creative).

The problem with any law is "law creep"; once a law is passed, it's much easier to move the law a few more steps. Think of speed cameras. "These will only be used to catch the top 15%, and only in sign posted, hi crash areas". But now it's moved to anytime, anywhere and you are lucky to get 10Kph leeway.

I'm all for steps to counter copyright breaches, and good on ISP's like Xnet who play their part to help. But we need to be careful that we don't shift the onus from the individuals who do this, to the providers.




Chorus has spent $1.4 billion on making their xDSL broadband network faster and even more now as they are upgrading their rural Conklins. If your still stuck on ADSL or VDSL, why not spend $195 on a master filter install to make sure you are getting the most out of your connection?
I install - Naked DSL, DSL Master Splitters, VoIP, data cabling and general computer support for home and small business.
Rural Broadband RBI installer for Ultimate Broadband and Full Flavour

 

Need help in Auckland, Waikato or BoP? Click my email button, or email me direct: [my user name] at geekzonemail dot com


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  # 123920 16-Apr-2008 09:33
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Bung:
The anti tpm stuff specifically excludes region control or "or system to the extent that it controls geographic market segmentation" from its scope.


Good, so we're left with the dreambox (and Windows MCE) problem which format shift as a matter of course.  Along with the idiotic trade barrier protection for, of all things, movie theatres!

I couldn't find a definition of "format shifting".  Am I o.k. if I don't change the codec?

I love how it says that software engineers are the only ones who can break TPMs...

1) You're allowed to reverse engineer a TPM.
2) However, you're not allowed to communicate how to get around it to anyone else.
3) Therefore, the only people able to get around TPMs will be the people with the skills to do it themselves.

Silly.  No, I don't think that it will be cheap or easy to find librarians willing to copy things for you.

I also love that the reasoning behind allowing music copies was because everyone was already doing it.

I guess my home media server with ISO rips of my DVD collection on it is still illegal.




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