Physical redundancy - Business UFB

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Ipv89

141 posts

Master Geek

#255770 28-Aug-2019 15:15

Hi All,

I am wanting to know how many exchanges there are in the Hawkes Bay region. I am looking at several different providers for Business UFB. Does anyone know how diverse the physical infrastructure is in this part of NZ? Or is it ISP specific?

Thanks in advance for any help offered

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#2307371 28-Aug-2019 15:26

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you have the benefit of having Unison 'UFB' as well as Chorus UFB. So you can chuck in a connection from both (there are plenty of options for Unison now), and have full redundancy between providers.

Makes me laugh when you see two Chorus ONT's in a business that have been installed for redundancy - they are going to be connected to the same cable, splitter, OLT, etc!

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hio77

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#2307372 28-Aug-2019 15:31

chevrolux:

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you have the benefit of having Unison 'UFB' as well as Chorus UFB. So you can chuck in a connection from both (there are plenty of options for Unison now), and have full redundancy between providers.

Makes me laugh when you see two Chorus ONT's in a business that have been installed for redundancy - they are going to be connected to the same cable, splitter, OLT, etc!

unison, Vector, Spark, Vodafone among many others also offer fibre access for this purpose...

However, the other amusement is often this is still through the same power supply, conduit, area. thus able to fall victim to spade failure etc.

Quite rare for the larger provider to have downtimes on their network, but it is possible... suppose they are more worried about this than the access layer? - which does get far more expensive...

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Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

chevrolux

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#2307374 28-Aug-2019 15:35

I personally think the simplest option for a solid connection is go Bitstream 3/3A, with 4G mobile backup.

4G data is every now, and then with BS3/3A you can get that 8 hour SLA from Chorus. That's not that long to run on mobile data.

Wellingtondave

156 posts

Master Geek

#2307375 28-Aug-2019 15:35

chevrolux:

Makes me laugh when you see two Chorus ONT's in a business that have been installed for redundancy - they are going to be connected to the same cable, splitter, OLT, etc!

It does make some sense in that if an ONT fails you've got a backup on site, what's the turnaround time for Chorus to arrive with another one to program and install? Is it even possible to purchase a spare just to have on hand?

To O.P, have you considered fixed wireless as a backup alternative? The reasoning being, many cabinets will only have a fixed amount of battery backup, cell towers may be prioritised to have generators attached if there was a long outage.

Ipv89

141 posts

Master Geek

#2307382 28-Aug-2019 15:51

Thanks for the replies. I am looking at UFB with bitstream. Possibly 2 physical lines (Unisen,Chrous) we currently already have dark fibre and several other network connections so we have conduits on opposite sides of the building.

What I am unsure of is do both networks end up in the same place i.e. Hastings or Napier exchange?

nztim

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TEAMnetwork

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#2307386 28-Aug-2019 16:00

Don't know about Hawkes bay but we have customers with Citylink and Chorus to provide redundancy

Two chorus tails in the same location will just go back to the same OLT so there is no redundancy there

Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.

darylblake

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#2307388 28-Aug-2019 16:09

Ipv89:

Thanks for the replies. I am looking at UFB with bitstream. Possibly 2 physical lines (Unisen,Chrous) we currently already have dark fibre and several other network connections so we have conduits on opposite sides of the building.

What I am unsure of is do both networks end up in the same place i.e. Hastings or Napier exchange?

AFAIK Unison is Napier, but chorus could be somewhere else, guess it depends where their equipment is, and if ordering an extended backhaul to wellington or auckland is gonna bypass the same building/exchange. I wouldn't know.

BarTender

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#2307390 28-Aug-2019 16:12

I personally would go with the Fixed and Mobile broadband option rather than two ISPs.

You may be lucky with Chorus and Unison offering service but most often when things go wrong it's someone digging something up in the road vs a core network element failure. And when something is dug up then everyone is impacted.

Mobile backup you have a higher chance of remaining online and just need to manage the data cap during that outage period. I do know smaller players have opted for a Skinny / prepaid mobile broadband offering and then just put money onto it during outages rather than paying a monthly service.

Otherwise if you can get decent VDSL service that would be the option I would look at instead of having two UFB connections.

quickymart

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#2307433 28-Aug-2019 18:11

Wellingtondave:

chevrolux:

Makes me laugh when you see two Chorus ONT's in a business that have been installed for redundancy - they are going to be connected to the same cable, splitter, OLT, etc!

It does make some sense in that if an ONT fails you've got a backup on site, what's the turnaround time for Chorus to arrive with another one to program and install? Is it even possible to purchase a spare just to have on hand?

To O.P, have you considered fixed wireless as a backup alternative? The reasoning being, many cabinets will only have a fixed amount of battery backup, cell towers may be prioritised to have generators attached if there was a long outage.

No, you can't just purchase an ONT. It's either installed by Chorus or not.

atomeara

324 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2307518 28-Aug-2019 20:34

Chorus offer BS4 (Bitstream 4) with a diversity option but expect to pay for it.

As said above a Chorus UFB and Unison Service is likely to give you a high level. But it may end up going down the same road (so it might be protected from a digger bucket, but think bridge or culvert wash out)

4G can be good, but in some cases is fed off the same Chorus fibres that feed UFB and DSL (more common in rural areas)

DSL can also offer some levels of protection but it is likely to share the same ducts as UFB fibre between Cabinet and Exchange.

It is also important to protect against a Chorus network, backhaul or service provider outages

These are almost as common as fibre cuts but tend to get fixed faster.

I have seen a lot of interesting outages recently, one earlier this week in Whangarei which was planned for road works seemed to take down a number of ISPs including 2dgrees and Spark, as the backup path also went past the roadwork sites.

Chorus when configuring a new network element in Blenheim managed to take down the UFB back haul network from Palmerston North to Wellington due to a duplicated IP.

dt

1152 posts

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#2307553 28-Aug-2019 22:25

you can have a diverse path built, but be prepared to front up some serious $$

Depending on your bandwidth requirements 4g as a backup can be a good option, best to design this well though so its only routes critical services..

Wheelbarrow01

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Chorus

#2307555 28-Aug-2019 22:31

chevrolux:

I personally think the simplest option for a solid connection is go Bitstream 3/3A, with 4G mobile backup.

4G data is every now, and then with BS3/3A you can get that 8 hour SLA from Chorus. That's not that long to run on mobile data.

Just so you are aware, Chorus now offers a "Small Business Fibre" option on all the standard business bandwidth plans. This is a new product that offers BS2 fibre (UFB broadband) with business level Assure response times - ie same day response if reported by midday, or next day midday response if reported between midday and midnight.

The wholesale price is $5 more per month than the standard "Business Fibre Starter" plans. Obviously I can't advise what the retail price is as that depends on the RSP, and because it's such a new product not all RSPs have started offering it yet.

It's a great option if you need the business grade assure experience without the higher price point of BS3/3A. And when paired with 4G failover it does offer good redundancy protection for small businesses at a reasonable price.

The views expressed by me are not necessarily those of my employer Chorus NZ Ltd

Ipv89

141 posts

Master Geek

#2307594 29-Aug-2019 08:23

Thanks for all the info, it looks like I might put in a dark fibre + 2 UFB BS2 lines. It will cost but its for a critical service.

dt

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#2307646 29-Aug-2019 10:21

Ipv89:

Thanks for all the info, it looks like I might put in a dark fibre + 2 UFB BS2 lines. It will cost but its for a critical service.

This will protect your business against a service providers core failure but wont protect your business from someone on a digger

nztim

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#2307667 29-Aug-2019 11:03

dt:
Ipv89:

Thanks for all the info, it looks like I might put in a dark fibre + 2 UFB BS2 lines. It will cost but its for a critical service.

This will protect your business against a service providers core failure but wont protect your business from someone on a digger

Mikrotik + SimCard + UPS comes to mind

Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.

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