ISPs rerouting the traffic a certain way to lower their cost. Is this a thing?

Forums › New Zealand Broadband › ISPs rerouting the traffic a certain way to lower their cost. Is this a thing?

thinkingtrex8848

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#270412 8-May-2020 10:37

As per title, ISPs rerouting the traffic a certain way to lower their cost resulting in slower speeds for the customer. Is this a thing?

If yes, how do I know which ones are doing this and which ones aren't?

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#2479136 8-May-2020 10:47

Of course it is and routes are not static they could change at any time if $$$ can be saved as they are a business not a charity

xpd

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#2479137 8-May-2020 10:47

Yes, it can be done, but will generally result in that ISP getting a bad name.

Stick with the big players (Spark, Voyager, Vodafone, Orcon etc) and you'll generally be fine.

XPD / Gavin

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thinkingtrex8848

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#2479138 8-May-2020 10:50

xpd:

Yes, it can be done, but will generally result in that ISP getting a bad name.

Stick with the big players (Spark, Voyager, Vodafone, Orcon etc) and you'll generally be fine.

I'm aware Voyager has a great name and comes highly recommended but would you call it a big player?

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#2479584 9-May-2020 03:30

Its not so much where they route their international traffic, its more the number of routes they support and whether they have enough capacity on each especially considering that different ISPs might have different characteristics of their peak traffic.

Time to find a new industry!

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#2479643 9-May-2020 09:51

brownie112:

As per title, ISPs rerouting the traffic a certain way to lower their cost resulting in slower speeds for the customer. Is this a thing?

If yes, how do I know which ones are doing this and which ones aren't?

It's totally irrelevant whether this is a "thing" or not without specifying exactly what you want to know.

Would you argue a lower cost BGP route that offered slower speeds but much better latency and improved QoE is good or bad?

Would you argue a lower cost BGP route that offered the same speeds but slightly higher latency is good or bad?

Would you argue a higher cost BGP route that offered the fastest speeds but slightly higher latency is good or bad?

Would you argue a higher cost BGP route that offered the fastest speeds but slightly lower latency is good or bad?

All RSP's route traffic different ways because there isn't a one case fits all solution nor business case.

thinkingtrex8848

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#2479648 9-May-2020 10:13

Okay so looks like the question may have come across as offensive. Intention was nothing overly complicated.

Just thought it's one of those things like "traffic shaping" or "throttling" etc that we used to care about back in the day and actively avoided the ISPs that did it.

Mod: feel free to delete the thread.

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#2479655 9-May-2020 10:49

brownie112: Okay so looks like the question may have come across as offensive. Intention was nothing overly complicated.

I'm not sure why you got such a hostile reaction either.

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#2479672 9-May-2020 11:43

brownie112: Okay so looks like the question may have come across as offensive. Intention was nothing overly complicated.

Just thought it's one of those things like "traffic shaping" or "throttling" etc that we used to care about back in the day and actively avoided the ISPs that did it.

Mod: feel free to delete the thread.

It's not an offensive question but it's in no way similar to artificial limiting of traffic by traffic shaping.

Without really understanding the answer you are wanting it's not really possible to answer the question.

thinkingtrex8848

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#2480352 10-May-2020 10:58

sbiddle:

brownie112: Okay so looks like the question may have come across as offensive. Intention was nothing overly complicated.

Just thought it's one of those things like "traffic shaping" or "throttling" etc that we used to care about back in the day and actively avoided the ISPs that did it.

Mod: feel free to delete the thread.

It's not an offensive question but it's in no way similar to artificial limiting of traffic by traffic shaping.

Without really understanding the answer you are wanting it's not really possible to answer the question.

Sorry if I wasn't clear in the original post. What I mean't by " how do I know which ones are doing this and which ones aren't?" is that once I know which ISP is doing it, I can try to avoid them.

However it has come to my knowledge that this re routing should not be a factor at all in deciding ISPs and that this doesn't affect the speeds/quality of internet you get.

It's just that I was reading past posts on GZ search and found a few where this whole "routing" traffic was mentioned(Stuff Fibre maybe? can't remember) with a negative connotation where some people were getting 200-350mbps on a gigabit plan on ethernet on factory issued router and the reason was apparently the way traffic was routed. Hence why wanted to ask and get a better understanding.

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#2480811 10-May-2020 20:16

brownie112: this re routing should not be a factor at all in deciding ISPs and that this doesn't affect the speeds/quality of internet you get

Well as I'm on bigpipe and to connect to my work VPN I have to go via Australia back to NZ due to Spark's financial related peering agreements I think your question was valid.

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#2485071 17-May-2020 01:01

In the USA, there are various fiber cables crossing the country and yes ISPs will choose different routes based on cost. When travelling long distances, the lower cost & less direct paths will not necessarily be the best for gaming and this is the market that you typically hear stories of bad physical routing paths.

In NZ there isnt much choice for paths - the three main backhaul providers (Chorus, vocus, vodafone) have pretty much the same paths around the country following the state highways or railways with not much difference.

However there is one key exception in the isp market within nz:
Almost all ISPs except spark openly peer at the auckland peering exchange.

The closest place Spark openly peers is in australia so to get from spark to another ISP in NZ, traffic will often go via australia. Spark has been invited many times to join the open peering party, but refuses to. This policy of sparks will have caused some slowdown with vpn and rdp traffic for staff working from home due to the increased latency via australia when connecting to an office server.

So for almost any other isp, going to another user on a different isp across town, it will go via auckland.

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thinkingtrex8848

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#2485072 17-May-2020 01:30

Okay, so what does that mean in terms of connection speed for a Spark customer for within NZ and international speed?

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#2485085 17-May-2020 08:14

Hi I am on Spark at home and work with Voda, and our desktop is all in a data centre in Auckland and I'm in the lower North Island, so my Citrix session has a 70mS trip while on Spark and 24mS if at my neighbours who are on Vodafone, and for comparison it's around 50mS if I teather from my Vodafone mobile.

Do I notice it on a citrix session..... Nah.

Cyril

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#2485098 17-May-2020 09:27

I am also interested in this discussion. Since the lockdown had everyone streaming at home, I have noticed a general deterioration of my streaming performance. Not so much within NZ, but definitely overseas. I often get buffering and reduced quality on Australian IPTV streams in particular, but also some European sites and usually in our evening. It tends to come and go but I often get buffering now where I didn't before. I am on a WISP, none of the 'big' players, and I don't know how that affects this.

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#2485121 17-May-2020 10:19

Rikkitic:

I am also interested in this discussion. Since the lockdown had everyone streaming at home, I have noticed a general deterioration of my streaming performance. Not so much within NZ, but definitely overseas. I often get buffering and reduced quality on Australian IPTV streams in particular, but also some European sites and usually in our evening. It tends to come and go but I often get buffering now where I didn't before. I am on a WISP, none of the 'big' players, and I don't know how that affects this.

this discussion has zero to do with your issues

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