How is fibre bandwidth shared in an apartment block?

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lchiu7

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#280194 1-Dec-2020 21:16

I was asked about the following situation. I manage a short-term accomodation in an inner city Welly apartment and when Chorus connected up the building they ran fibre pairs from the demarc up to the ceiling on each floor, one for each apartment.

When an apartment wanted fibre, Chorus would then locate their fibre pair and take into the ceiling of that apartment, run it to the floor to the ONT and then the person would connect their modem based on the ISP.

I signd up for a 100Mbs plan via TrustPower. It's been fine for almost two years.

Tonight one of my guests said their speed was terrible ( 10Mbs) and said it was because a bunch of people in the apartment were streaming videos and so the Internet was being shared across the Chorus backhaul. That didn't make any sense to me. From the Chorus cabinet the backhaul fibre must in in the multi-Gbs range so that when it's split into the various fibre pairs to each house, each house should able to receive up to 1Gbs since all ISP's offer that and now Chorus offers hyerfibre I would presume all households could support that also.

The guest was adamant that he could only get 100Mbs if nobody else was on (!) and buyers were getting duped by the ISP's! I didn't want to argue pleading a lack of technical knowledge since no technical argument I could make would alter his opinion.

I did tell them to restart the modem just in case.

For my knowledge, while Chorus owns all the fibre, when does the ISP's bandwidth begin to affect a customer's speed?

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#2614375 1-Dec-2020 21:24

Are they using wifi?

lchiu7

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#2614386 1-Dec-2020 21:53

They must be since there are no RJ45 cables in the apartment and I suspect they were using their phone. I guess I should have also asked if they could try the 5Ghz band which the AP also transmits.

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nztim

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#2614390 1-Dec-2020 22:00

Dense places like apartments are a nightmare for wifi each apartment will be broadcasting their own SSID crowding all the channels

To make it work properly the router needs to be locates centrally and the transmit power lowered to the correct level only to cover that apartment

Every apartments connection needs to play ball with this otherwise it will just be a too many birds In the air

better yet a managed Access Point solution for the whole complex

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hio77

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#2614404 1-Dec-2020 23:03

These concepts of congestion on the access network are near impossible to shake... Thanks conklins! Its surprising how much of the industry world wide actually deal with it...

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Jase2985

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#2614427 2-Dec-2020 05:28

fiber is split 12-16 different ways (Gigabit Passive Optical Network) with connected ONT's sharing an asymmetric downstream 2.5 Gbit/s and upstream 1.25 Gbit/s.

Its unlikely that the GPON is being saturated, and its more likely to be wifi congestion.

Chorus run a congestion free network so if the 12-16 split gets to about 90% of capacity for 15 minutes i believe it would flag in their system and they can look into it.

sbiddle

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#2614475 2-Dec-2020 07:18

It doesn't work the way they think it does.

An apartment block is no different to any other part of the UFB network - a fibre to each premises/apartment that then runs back via a splitter to the OLT inside the Chorus network. Chorus even make stats for each node available so you can even view traffic on any given node.

My pick is they're using WiFi - 2.4GHz WiFi in any inner city apartment is a complete and utter dead loss these days and is basically unusable. Even 5GHz is becoming a bit of an issue.

*IF* bandwidth was an issue it can only be at two points - the Chorus handover to the RSP could be saturated, or the RSP or their handover to a peering point could be saturated.

lchiu7

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#2614484 2-Dec-2020 07:39

Thanks for all the responses. I didnt want to argue with the guest about how his premise about bandwidth congestion from Chorus was causing the problem. That serves no good purpose.

A couple of points.

1. Could changing the default WiFi band on the router help?

2. I do have 5GHz. It's likely to be slightly less crowded and since the AP is in line of sight, distance is not an issue. I will ask them to try that if their devices support it.

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antoniosk

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#2614486 2-Dec-2020 07:41

sbiddle:

Each premises/apartment runs back via a splitter to the OLT inside the Chorus network. Chorus even make stats for each node available so you can even view traffic on any given node.

Highlighting the key piece; this is what I recall was eventually agreed in the MDU process, each pair is taken back to Chorus. There isn't a proxy box in the basement ala Singapore and other jurisdictions.

I do hope the fibre providers havent 'improvised' though, like the Post Office and Telecom used to, where for more complex buildings or locations they changed their approach and did something altogether different... because they were running out of money, building owners being difficult etc.

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nztim

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#2614490 2-Dec-2020 07:56

antoniosk:

There isn't a proxy box in the basement ala Singapore and other jurisdictions.

Try my brother in Sydney - NBN FTTB

Fibre to The basement, VDSL to each apartment

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hio77

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#2614496 2-Dec-2020 08:05

antoniosk:
sbiddle:

Each premises/apartment runs back via a splitter to the OLT inside the Chorus network. Chorus even make stats for each node available so you can even view traffic on any given node.

Highlighting the key piece; this is what I recall was eventually agreed in the MDU process, each pair is taken back to Chorus. There isn't a proxy box in the basement ala Singapore and other jurisdictions.

I do hope the fibre providers havent 'improvised' though, like the Post Office and Telecom used to, where for more complex buildings or locations they changed their approach and did something altogether different... because they were running out of money, building owners being difficult etc.

Yup. I don't recall the exact numbers, but their MDU installs often end up with smaller split ratios on them. That was a fact I found quite interesting.

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everettpsycho

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#2614507 2-Dec-2020 08:27

antoniosk:
sbiddle:

Each premises/apartment runs back via a splitter to the OLT inside the Chorus network. Chorus even make stats for each node available so you can even view traffic on any given node.

Highlighting the key piece; this is what I recall was eventually agreed in the MDU process, each pair is taken back to Chorus. There isn't a proxy box in the basement ala Singapore and other jurisdictions.

I do hope the fibre providers havent 'improvised' though, like the Post Office and Telecom used to, where for more complex buildings or locations they changed their approach and did something altogether different... because they were running out of money, building owners being difficult etc.

Depending on the size of the MDU I would imagine the central demarcation would either be a full cabinet or a distribution point that is basically joining lots of single fibres together with a big multi fibre from the outside cabinet to many pairs of fibres to each unit.

I'd tend to agree with other though, apartments are terrible for WiFi congestion, unfortunately for trying to find the root cause it's hard to do when the people testing don't understand networking basics. Seems a lot of people think WiFi is the solution to all their problems and plugging in to the router to test never enters into their minds, they just blame the fibre as it's the only thing they changed, not that they usually stick their omt in a box somewhere and their old VDSL modem was I'm the living room.

taneb1

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#2614508 2-Dec-2020 08:28

Hi @lchiu7

I've had a look over our network stats for Wellington and can't see any issues or any risk of congestion - As others have said it is most likely WiFi related and would recommend to test over Ethernet if possible to double check but if you need anything checked from our side please feel free to PM me.

Thanks, Tane

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raytaylor

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#2614524 2-Dec-2020 08:55

lchiu7:

Tonight one of my guests said their speed was terrible ( 10Mbs) and said it was because a bunch of people in the apartment were streaming videos and so the Internet was being shared across the Chorus backhaul.

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wellygary

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#2614559 2-Dec-2020 09:33

lchiu7:

They must be since there are no RJ45 cables in the apartment and I suspect they were using their phone. I guess I should have also asked if they could try the 5Ghz band which the AP also transmits.

Tell them to stand closer to their AP :).

Seriously though, the Wifi saturation is likely to be terrible, Suggest they connect directly to their router vis Ethernet and then come back with a report on traffic saturation.... also what plan are they on with their ISP????

lchiu7

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#2614563 2-Dec-2020 09:37

taneb1:

Hi @lchiu7

I've had a look over our network stats for Wellington and can't see any issues or any risk of congestion - As others have said it is most likely WiFi related and would recommend to test over Ethernet if possible to double check but if you need anything checked from our side please feel free to PM me.

Thanks, Tane

Thanks. I doubt it was network issues but WiFi congestion or their crappy mobile device. I suggested they try 5GHz. The AP is in direct line of sight of their mobile device no more than about 3 metres away so that isn't the issue.

No possibiity of ethernet with their phones or tablets.

Staying in Wellington. Check out my AirBnB in the Wellington CBD. https://www.airbnb.co.nz/h/wellycbd PM me and mention GZ to get a 15% discount and no AirBnB charges.

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