Extending fibre to minor dwelling

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wre1991

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#280710 5-Jan-2021 13:11

Is it possible to link from the fibre in our main house to the sleep-out, can chrous link from the existing connection to the sleep-out so that a separate modem can be installed? I know that we could always use wifi extenders but would prefer a wired connection out here, what are our options?

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#2630713 5-Jan-2021 13:18

You're probably best off burying an Ethernet cable. This can be connected to port 2 of your existing ONT and activated as a second connection (although I think it'll be limited to 100 Mb/s plans).

Scott3

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#2630714 5-Jan-2021 13:21

If you want a second ONT in the minor dwelling , this will need to arranged via chorus, and is not subsidised to expect a cost in excess of $2k.

No modems are required with fiber.

Your options are to:

Run a Lan Wire (can convert from ethernet to fiber and back if you want electrical isolation, or run is over 100m long) from your existing router to minor dwelling. Put an access point in the minor dwelling to provide wifi - either a stand alone one with it's own SSID, or a system which essentially does a wired back-hall mesh to share a SSD, and allow seamless roaming from one network to the other (no value to the latter if the sleepout is so far that main house wifi is well out of range). This will result in both dwelling sharing the same internet connection and bandwidth - likely the more economic solution, and bandwidth is hardly an issue with gig plans)
Find an ISP that will liven a second port on the existing ONT, and run that to a second router in the minor dwelling. That way you get two separate connections and ISP accounts.

Mehrts

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#2630720 5-Jan-2021 13:32

Since this is your own property, and not a separate title, run your own fibre and use Ethernet to fibre media converters on each end.

All components are reasonably priced & the hardest part will be getting it in the ground (do a run of conduit for expansion/replacement ease in the future!). Some network switches have built-in capacity for SFP (Small Form-factor Pluggable) optical transceivers, so you simply need to purchase the appropriate SFP modules & plug the fibre in, you're good to go.

The advantage of using fibre instead of copper Ethernet cable is that it doesn't corrode & it's electrically invisible, you don't have to worry about potential ground loops or lightning strikes taking out the cable, plus the throughput is only limited by the gear on each end.

I did a run of fibre from my house out to the shed with great results. See here for the GZ thread.

freitasm

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#2630747 5-Jan-2021 14:09

wre1991:

Is it possible to link from the fibre in our main house to the sleep-out, can chrous link from the existing connection to the sleep-out so that a separate modem can be installed? I know that we could always use wifi extenders but would prefer a wired connection out here, what are our options?

From replies, it seems people are assuming you want a second connection (new ISP account) there. Is this the case, or (since you mentioned WiFi extenders) you just need/want Internet in the sleepout?

If the second then you could just extend an ethernet cable (depending on distance). Or use a mesh solution (WiFi extenders are bad for your network performance).

So, exactly what are you trying to achieve?

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wre1991

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#2630769 5-Jan-2021 15:39

We are wanting it to run on the same ISP account, what I'm trying achieve is high-speed internet out in the sleep-out, we are high-bandwidth users (gaming, streaming etc.) compared to the people in the main house.

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#2630770 5-Jan-2021 15:42

Ok, in this case, the fastest you could get (without getting money out on the ethernet to fibre adapters) is to lay an ethernet cable between the buildings and a switch (or a mesh unity, assuming the router has a mesh system such as the FritzBox or some of the Dlink options) on the other side.

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#2630771 5-Jan-2021 15:42

Depending how far the sleep out is. Just run some shielded Cat5e to whatever router you're using and burying it and throwing a switch or another AP in the sleepout.

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wre1991

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#2630772 5-Jan-2021 15:45

Main house is currently using Vodafone Ultra Hub (fibre), second dwelling is currently connected to Vodafone Ultra Hub Plus via 4G network (far too slow) both on same ISP account.

trig42

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#2630774 5-Jan-2021 15:52

So, are the account holders paying for both a UFB and a 4G connection, or can the ultrahub do Mesh wifi and you are getting confused between that and 4G?

Your answer is to run a cable between the two dwellings, connect one end of it to a LAN port on the main house ultrahub, and connect a switch at the other end (or turn off DHCP in the UltraHub in the sleepout, and connect that cable to a LAN port on that one too, making it also a switch).

wre1991

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#2630776 5-Jan-2021 15:58

Only paying for the fibre, The Vodafone Ultra Hub Plus has backup 4G internet for when fibre is down so i took advantage of that and put it out here, and left the Vodafone Ultra Hub inside for the fibre connection.

wre1991

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#2630779 5-Jan-2021 16:16

Recommendation on what kind of cable to get? Will need 50m

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Behodar

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#2630781 5-Jan-2021 16:20

Cat 5e is fine for now, but you might want to spend a little extra for Cat 6 to make it more future-proof. The cable is nothing compared with the effort of digging/burying :)

You might want to run more than one at the same time.

timmmay

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#2630782 5-Jan-2021 16:21

That's a fair distance. A cable will work, but I wonder if you should look at one of the wireless options to link the two buildings.

Scott3

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#2630789 5-Jan-2021 16:57

Ah, pretty easy. Get a short Ethernet cable (many routers came with them so most households have some lying around) and test the setup in the main house. Whatever router is going to be in the main house (might as well put the better one?) will be set up with ISP supplied configuration. Other router will need to be switched into access point mode and the two connected with a cable.

If viable running a cable is better than a wireless link.

In terms of cable section if you want to just Bury it directly, you need a cable rated for that. Otherwise you need to put it in conduit (or even a hose) to protect it from damage from crushing, wet etc.

Next you will need to chose between Copper and Fiber. Copper maxes out at 100m, Fiber can do way more will need media converters at each end i.e. link. Running copper between buildings can cause issues with different ground electrical potential. Fiber avoids this by providing electrical isolation between dwellings. You can find electrical isolators for copper ethernet, but they arn't super common. Or cross your fingers and hope the buildings have the same electrical potential.

If you go the copper route, both cat5e and Cat6 can do gigabit over 100m. Cat6 is a bit better, and can support 10G over short distances. If gig is enough,cat5e will be fine.

Here is an example of a place that will sell bury appropriate cat5e in lengths shorter than a full spool. https://buildingeasy.co.nz/home/499-147-cat5e-ftp-gel-cable.html#/87-cat5e_cable-50m_length

You will need to get an ethernet termination kit. Note best practice is to terminate the solid core long run cable to a fixed jackpoint (either wall mount or in a patch panel), then to use a short, cheap premade patch cable to connect from their to the device. Solid cable isn't designed to be flexed or moved to much, so mounting a plug in the end of it is not ideal.

richms

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#2630793 5-Jan-2021 17:25

How long do you plan on being in this place? If its not a long term thing then just running some copper across the lawn and putting it away when you mow will get you started. 50m preterminated cat5 is about $40 for dynamix, but I have seen junk brands stuff around for under half that. The really cheap stuff off trademe is copper clad aluminium and IME it often comes not crimped properly, needing a recrimp and will periodically lose tension in the plug and go iffy and need another squeeze. Also the insulation is brittle, not UV resitant at all (thru a window will be enough to crumble) but they work for a while if you want to really save some cash for now to get better gear to put on the end of it.

Then at the other end, plug in a dedicated accesspoint, and a switch if you want to run devices wired. Repurposing routers that are not made to be an accesspoint as one is always a hassle since you have to manually give it IP addresses, turn off DHCP and hope that it doesnt have some "smarts" in it to detect the internet connection is down and start redirecting you to the router.

Irrigation hose is cheap, made to be buried and for low voltage stuff is more than sufficient to protect it for a short to medium term installation. You want the 19mm lawn sprinkler stuff so its easier to pull things thru and the hose couplers will have enough room for the fibre plug to pass thru easily if you decide later on to pull better stuff thru it.

Richard rich.ms

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