Copper withdrawal confusing for some

Forums › New Zealand Broadband › Copper withdrawal confusing for some

quickymart

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#301970 19-Oct-2022 19:55

https://www.consumer.org.nz/articles/copper-withdrawal-symptoms-fibre-roll-out-leaves-some-behind

Consumer magazine asked some members how they were finding the copper withdrawal process. Not all were happy.

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#2984882 19-Oct-2022 21:10

Haven't any of those people quoted in that article heard of a UPS. One that would power the phone system is pretty cheap and widely available. I'm surprised actually shocked that a UPS wasn't suggested as a solution instead of re installing a copper line with a different number.

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Rodders1nz

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#2984887 19-Oct-2022 21:28

Saw this on another thread on Geekzone. have purchased and works well for a pretty good price

https://www.constantvigil.com/product/Sentry-Lite

nztim

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#2984888 19-Oct-2022 21:32

If you live in a fibre area then you should get with the
times (And RSPs should provide more support to those people, including sending someone round to setup UPSs Routers etc)

What bugs me is the forced migration onto wireless in areas where fibre is unavailable by certain RSPs own decisions

I have had a case where someone was told to get off 110mbps vectored VDSL and move to 30mbps fixed wireless, alas they changed RSP

Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.

richms

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#2985056 20-Oct-2022 06:47

I don't get how these articles say things like "technology moves fast" - this has been a thing for close to 10 years now that people have been moving from copper. Fast is the rate that new CPUs come out, not a slow once in a lifetime change of communication technology.

Richard rich.ms

insane

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#2985062 20-Oct-2022 08:07

richms:
I don't get how these articles say things like "technology moves fast" - this has been a thing for close to 10 years now that people have been moving from copper. Fast is the rate that new CPUs come out, not a slow once in a lifetime change of communication technology.

If you're not in the game, and your RSP springs this on you in your latter years then this would seem fast. Remember these people in their lifetime have experienced the introduction of;

TV
Calculators
Colour TV
Space rockets
Satellites
Computers
Cell Phones
Internet
Internet banking
Wifi
Streaming Services

nztim

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#2985137 20-Oct-2022 08:59

insane:
richms:

I don't get how these articles say things like "technology moves fast" - this has been a thing for close to 10 years now that people have been moving from copper. Fast is the rate that new CPUs come out, not a slow once in a lifetime change of communication technology.

If you're not in the game, and your RSP springs this on you in your latter years then this would seem fast. Remember these people in their lifetime have experienced the introduction of;

TV
Calculators
Colour TV
Space rockets
Satellites
Computers
Cell Phones
Internet
Internet banking
Wifi
Streaming Services

No Issue with the people losing copper in fibre areas, it's been on the news and rollout started in 2012 and you would have to be living under a rock to not know it was going on

My point still stands though about people outside the fiber scope been forced off copper (epically in the example I gave above)

Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.

Mehrts

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#2985157 20-Oct-2022 09:22

My parents have had fibre internet for years, and were told by Spark last week that the copper lines for the landline phone weren't going to be supported in the future, and they have two options:

1. Move the phone to fibre.
2. Move to a "wireless" setup.

When I questioned mum about what they meant by "wireless" e.g. 4G or Wi-Fi VoIP setup, she didn't have the foggiest. Turns out Spark were meaning a 4G modem setup, which made zero sense considering fibre was already in use..

If it wasn't for me questioning things, then there's a the very real possibility that they could have ended up with a separate 4G modem just for the phone, and extra bills to boot.

I would have thought that Spark would check if there's fibre installed & in use first before even mentioning wireless, and thus saving confusion for the customers that aren't too hot on tech stuff.

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#2985283 20-Oct-2022 14:07

That's Spark looking after Spark, and others do the same. Margins on wireless broadband would be significantly greater for a mobile Telco compared to those on fibre where half or more of the monthly bill goes to the LFC.

I fully agree with @nztim that the industry as a whole has done a mediocre job and managing this change. It's annoying that legislation has to be enforced to force RSPs to be responsible players and not profit from omissions, half truths, or incomplete products.

It seems the logic is, if wireless is good enough to watch some Netflix and make a call, then that's what you should be on.

In an open -ish market you'd think that another competitor would target this segment of the market with a true like for like replacement with a seamless cutover experience. e.g also includes a mini UPS etc for the phone and simple to follow steps to change existing in use jack points.

OmniouS

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#2985338 20-Oct-2022 14:42

Mehrts:

My parents have had fibre internet for years, and were told by Spark last week that the copper lines for the landline phone weren't going to be supported in the future, and they have two options:

1. Move the phone to fibre.
2. Move to a "wireless" setup.

When I questioned mum about what they meant by "wireless" e.g. 4G or Wi-Fi VoIP setup, she didn't have the foggiest. Turns out Spark were meaning a 4G modem setup, which made zero sense considering fibre was already in use..

If it wasn't for me questioning things, then there's a the very real possibility that they could have ended up with a separate 4G modem just for the phone, and extra bills to boot.

I would have thought that Spark would check if there's fibre installed & in use first before even mentioning wireless, and thus saving confusion for the customers that aren't too hot on tech stuff.

My elderly neighbours had the same experience..

nztim

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#2985461 20-Oct-2022 18:07

insane:

It seems the logic is, if wireless is good enough to watch some Netflix and make a call, then that's what you should be on.

Thats really bad logic, don't get me wrong FWA is a great replacement for ADSL it most cases with a maximum speed of 24mbps

but with FWA topping out at 40ish mbps (on a good day) and the added latency is no replacement for a fast vectored VDSL connection

Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.

Technofreak

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#2985476 20-Oct-2022 19:26

The whole process of swapping from copper to fibre can be seamless and pretty well painless. All is needed is a bit of planning and for those that are not tech savvy some practical advice from the provider.

On the face of it we have exactly the same phone/ Internet set up as we had before fibre was installed, with the same redundancy. The only extra cost was a UPS which in our case we already had.

Sure, I planned how I wanted the change over done, but it was pretty basic and could apply to most installations. I'm surprised the Telcos don't offer a UPS package alongside the router/access points they have. On top of that provide some diagrams of layout options to work with the existing wiring set up.

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Mehrts

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#2985774 21-Oct-2022 10:41

Technofreak: ...some practical advice from the provider.

This is what's not happening though, and how the confusion is occurring in the first place.

I agree, it's a very simple change, but that's coming from someone that has tech experience and knowledge.
For those that have zero clues about how this stuff works, they just have to go off what they're being told by the service provider.

Wheelbarrow01

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Chorus

#2985982 22-Oct-2022 00:49

Mehrts:

My parents have had fibre internet for years, and were told by Spark last week that the copper lines for the landline phone weren't going to be supported in the future, and they have two options:

1. Move the phone to fibre.
2. Move to a "wireless" setup.

When I questioned mum about what they meant by "wireless" e.g. 4G or Wi-Fi VoIP setup, she didn't have the foggiest. Turns out Spark were meaning a 4G modem setup, which made zero sense considering fibre was already in use..

If it wasn't for me questioning things, then there's a the very real possibility that they could have ended up with a separate 4G modem just for the phone, and extra bills to boot.

I would have thought that Spark would check if there's fibre installed & in use first before even mentioning wireless, and thus saving confusion for the customers that aren't too hot on tech stuff.

I'm a bit confused by this one. Normally Spark moves a customer's voice and broadband over to fibre at the same time. They would generally only leave the voice on copper if a customer specifically requested it. For example if they had a monitored/medical alarm incompatible with fibre voice. Is this the case?

For a start, having two separate services is presumably costing your parents a fortune due to paying for two entirely separate network accesses - circa $55 for a standalone copper phone line plus upwards of $70 for a naked fibre broadband connection depending on plan. If both broadband and phone were over fibre, then the landline would cost about $10 on top of the broadband plan.

I absolutely agree with your second point though - you'd like to think that if a customer already has a working fibre broadband connection, they'd just offer to move the voice onto the same technology...

Handle9

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#2985988 22-Oct-2022 04:45

Technofreak: Haven't any of those people quoted in that article heard of a UPS.

The courier company?

larknz

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#2985990 22-Oct-2022 06:28

Spark seem to be pushing an agenda. My mother has been told that her only option is wireless in her retirement village. If you look on the Spark website it also says wireless is the only option. However the Chorus website and all the other major retailers
say that fibre is available. Fibre was installed to her townhouse about 12 months ago. Spark are being deceitful.

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