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Forums › New Zealand Broadband › Bonding SHDSL


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Uber Geek
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Topic # 30823 22-Feb-2009 18:22
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Does anyone know if SHDSL can be bonded?
I have a client who needs a high speed dedicated connection of about 6mbit however there is no fibre - only copper pairs in the area.

Reason I ask is that UNS / SHDSL is the only way i know of to connect them to the internet over the copper pairs, and be able to provide multiple public ip addresses to LAN computers.

Otherwise we would need to look at getting a fibre connection terminated in the exchange and putting up a wireless bridge to transport it to the clients premesis. I dont think chorus would let me put an antenna on the local exchange.




Ray Taylor
Taylor Broadband (rural hawkes bay)
www.ruralkiwi.com

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For my general guide to extending your wireless network Click Here

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Master Geek
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  Reply # 197446 23-Feb-2009 14:15
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If by SHDSL you mean G.SHDSL.bis, aka G.991.2 the answer is YES. It's defined in the standard, albeit an option.
However, since you refer to the Telecom product known as UNS, then I bet that the product you really want to inquire about is HSNS (High Speed Network Service), which while fibre delivery initially, is supposed to offer copper delivery in future.
Note that there are some issues with G.991.2 compared to HDSL (the current 4-wire 2Mbps standard which is used to deliver E1 circuits). HDSL takes two pairs, and is electrically noisy (a disturber of other circuits in the cable bundle). I.e., it does not play nicely with ADSL, ADSL2+ or VDSL2. It's also sometimes problematic to get---standard practice seems to be to sort through several possible pairs before one that works is found. But, it does work up to 5km with the possibility of active repeaters up to a total of 20km. SHDSL has a nominal maximum of 3km, although I think some manufacturers have equipment that trades off more pairs for distance rather than speed.
When do you need it? Have you asked some of the other UCLL (unbundelled copper local loop) carriers what they can do? 6 Mbps should be achievable on VDSL2 (and maybe even ADSL2+ if you don't need need symmetric) if the distance from the exchange is not too great---and on a single pair.



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  Reply # 197578 23-Feb-2009 21:03
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michaeln: If by SHDSL you mean G.SHDSL.bis, aka G.991.2 the answer is YES. It's defined in the standard, albeit an option.
However, since you refer to the Telecom product known as UNS, then I bet that the product you really want to inquire about is HSNS (High Speed Network Service), which while fibre delivery initially, is supposed to offer copper delivery in future.
Note that there are some issues with G.991.2 compared to HDSL (the current 4-wire 2Mbps standard which is used to deliver E1 circuits). HDSL takes two pairs, and is electrically noisy (a disturber of other circuits in the cable bundle). I.e., it does not play nicely with ADSL, ADSL2+ or VDSL2. It's also sometimes problematic to get---standard practice seems to be to sort through several possible pairs before one that works is found. But, it does work up to 5km with the possibility of active repeaters up to a total of 20km. SHDSL has a nominal maximum of 3km, although I think some manufacturers have equipment that trades off more pairs for distance rather than speed.
When do you need it? Have you asked some of the other UCLL (unbundelled copper local loop) carriers what they can do? 6 Mbps should be achievable on VDSL2 (and maybe even ADSL2+ if you don't need need symmetric) if the distance from the exchange is not too great---and on a single pair.


Probably looking at getting it about 3 months from now
Because its in Napier, nothing has been unbundled yet except for the vdsl2 option, and probably wont be soon, and the area is not getting cabnetised untill 2010.
We would need at least 3mbit upload speed, could probably get away with 2mbit for a while

Over the copper, do you know what speeds can be achieved by the HSNS? I see they say 1gbit in the brochure on tcnz wholesale but i dont see any comparison between copper and fibre.




Ray Taylor
Taylor Broadband (rural hawkes bay)
www.ruralkiwi.com

There is no place like localhost
For my general guide to extending your wireless network Click Here

 
 
 
 


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Snap Internet

  Reply # 197652 24-Feb-2009 07:56
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HSNS is capable of providing a 6mbit symetrical circuit over copper. Snap has been testing the copper based platform for HSNS ( <= 10mbit), despite some initial teething issues the circuits are now performing as they should. Contact one of our sales team at sales@snap.net.nz for more details.

Edit: If your customer is in Christchurch / North Canterbury that is.




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Master Geek
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  Reply # 197714 24-Feb-2009 12:10
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raytaylor: 

Probably looking at getting it about 3 months from now
Because its in Napier, nothing has been unbundled yet except for the vdsl2 option, and probably wont be soon, and the area is not getting cabnetised untill 2010.
We would need at least 3mbit upload speed, could probably get away with 2mbit for a while

Over the copper, do you know what speeds can be achieved by the HSNS? I see they say 1gbit in the brochure on tcnz wholesale but i dont see any comparison between copper and fibre.

Copper will be using G.991.2 but the speeds to a particular location probably aren't known yet (I'm guessing).
Since 6/3Mbps or even 6/2Mbps is enough for you, I'd suggest VDSL2. ADSL[2+] isn't going to cut it for you since you'll not get the upload speed you need.



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  Reply # 197885 25-Feb-2009 00:34
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I will email snap and double check the canterbury requirement - Im in napier.

VDSL2 may be a problem if we have to go direct from Telstra Clear for bandwidth pricing. I might check with them too but i dont know if their wholesale department will deal with smaller companies - rather its looking like telecom wholesale. The retail biznet doesnt mention multiple ip's.

Thanks again for the info guys.




Ray Taylor
Taylor Broadband (rural hawkes bay)
www.ruralkiwi.com

There is no place like localhost
For my general guide to extending your wireless network Click Here

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