Questions about EUBA 0 kbps

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Nil Einne

469 posts

Ultimate Geek

#67582 3-Sep-2010 22:17

Hi, I have some questions about the Enhanced Unbundled Bitstream Access (EUBA) 0 kbps Telecom Wholesale plan that hopefully people here can answer. (It should be clear from my questions I'm an end user not an ISP so 'ask Telecom Wholesale' is not likely to work.)

In particular, how much does this cost ISPs compared to BUBA? I'm only referring to the per port/user cost, not the other behind the scenes stuff like handover etc. I presume this isn't a secret. The ComCom document doesn't list any calculations for the 0 kbps option.

In fact, and this leads me to my second point, it doesn't discuss the 0 kbps at all from what I've seen. And so too in earlier discussions, it seems 0 kbps wasn't mentioned at all. So am I right this is a new thing, and on Telecom's initiative? When did the 0 kbps option become available?

Finally considering that the key advertised advantage of EUBA is the priority channel for VoIP, am I right that the primary difference from an end user's POV between EUBA 0 kbps and BUBA is that EUBA 0 kbps offers ADSL2+ whereas BUBA technically does not? I do understand that there's are structured differently and so for the ISP things aren't so simple.

Cheers

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396 posts

Ultimate Geek

#376395 3-Sep-2010 23:28

If you are an end user, ask YOUR ISP.

EUBA0 is not a regulated product and you won't find it in the ComCom docs as you say.

common sense is not very common

PenultimateHop

637 posts

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#376402 4-Sep-2010 00:00

Nil Einne: Finally considering that the key advertised advantage of EUBA is the priority channel for VoIP, am I right that the primary difference from an end user's POV between EUBA 0 kbps and BUBA is that EUBA 0 kbps offers ADSL2+ whereas BUBA technically does not? I do understand that there's are structured differently and so for the ISP things aren't so simple.

Cheers

The main difference is BUBA is PPP and L2TP based while EUBA is IPoE based.

Ragnor

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#376407 4-Sep-2010 01:44

Haven't seen any ISP's offering residential plans using EUBA. If I remember correctly it requires a modem which does vlan tagging (ie: none of the current/regular usual consumer models).

Given most people aren't using voip yet and EUBA is probably a fair bit more expensive than UBS/UBA it's not really a surprise.

I would guess it's suited to small business use, where they don't need mission critical connectivity - probably comes in a step below HSNS.

Cymro

283 posts

Ultimate Geek

#376455 4-Sep-2010 08:12

Nil Einne: Hi, I have some questions about the Enhanced Unbundled Bitstream Access (EUBA) 0 kbps Telecom Wholesale plan that hopefully people here can answer. (It should be clear from my questions I'm an end user not an ISP so 'ask Telecom Wholesale' is not likely to work.)

In particular, how much does this cost ISPs compared to BUBA? I'm only referring to the per port/user cost, not the other behind the scenes stuff like handover etc. I presume this isn't a secret. The ComCom document doesn't list any calculations for the 0 kbps option.

It's the same regulated price as BUBA (although the handover charges etc. are actually cheaper).

In fact, and this leads me to my second point, it doesn't discuss the 0 kbps at all from what I've seen. And so too in earlier discussions, it seems 0 kbps wasn't mentioned at all. So am I right this is a new thing, and on Telecom's initiative? When did the 0 kbps option become available?

EUBA0 has been around since November-ish last year from memory, it's meant to be an option for ISP's that want to move to Wholesales Next Gen services but don't want to start using the guaranteed VOIP channels yet.

Finally considering that the key advertised advantage of EUBA is the priority channel for VoIP, am I right that the primary difference from an end user's POV between EUBA 0 kbps and BUBA is that EUBA 0 kbps offers ADSL2+ whereas BUBA technically does not? I do understand that there's are structured differently and so for the ISP things aren't so simple.

Cheers

BUBA technically can do ADSL2, but the footprint for ADSL2 coverage roughly matches up to the EUBA footprint.
EUBA has some inherent technical advantages over BUBA as PenultimateHop pointed out, the handover to the ISP doesn't have to go via L2TP tunnel so doesn't have that overhead.

Cymro

283 posts

Ultimate Geek

#376456 4-Sep-2010 08:16

Ragnor: Haven't seen any ISP's offering residential plans using EUBA. If I remember correctly it requires a modem which does vlan tagging (ie: none of the current/regular usual consumer models).

Telecom Retail have been using EUBA0 since Jan 1st for residential customers who can get it, there is a version that still appears as PPP at the users end, but magic happens between that point and the ISP.

cyril7

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#376474 4-Sep-2010 09:19

Telecom Retail have been using EUBA0 since Jan 1st for residential customers who can get it, there is a version that still appears as PPP at the users end, but magic happens between that point and the ISP.

So is there a distinguishing feature that indicates your on EUBA, I presume connections that dont use unique user/password are EUBA and older BUBA have unique account details, or is there something else that indicates whats in use.

Cyril

sbiddle

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#376476 4-Sep-2010 09:23

Ragnor: Haven't seen any ISP's offering residential plans using EUBA. If I remember correctly it requires a modem which does vlan tagging (ie: none of the current/regular usual consumer models).

There are ISP's including Xtreme networks who have been offering EUBA for some time. Their plans are targetted mainly at business users rather than residential however.

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Cymro

283 posts

Ultimate Geek

#376508 4-Sep-2010 11:05

cyril7:
Telecom Retail have been using EUBA0 since Jan 1st for residential customers who can get it, there is a version that still appears as PPP at the users end, but magic happens between that point and the ISP.

So is there a distinguishing feature that indicates your on EUBA, I presume connections that dont use unique user/password are EUBA and older BUBA have unique account details, or is there something else that indicates whats in use.

Cyril

I'm pretty sure Telecom don't need the correct username/password regardless of the BUBA/EUBA access tail.

Not entirely sure about any distinguishing feature at the users end, although if you are on ADSL2 and signed up with Telecom after Jan 1st, chances are you are on EUBA0.

cyril7

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#376509 4-Sep-2010 11:07

Cheers Cymro

Cyril

Nil Einne

469 posts

Ultimate Geek

#386821 1-Oct-2010 16:34

Cymro:
Nil Einne:
Finally considering that the key advertised advantage of EUBA is the priority channel for VoIP, am I right that the primary difference from an end user's POV between EUBA 0 kbps and BUBA is that EUBA 0 kbps offers ADSL2+ whereas BUBA technically does not? I do understand that there's are structured differently and so for the ISP things aren't so simple.

Cheers

BUBA technically can do ADSL2, but the footprint for ADSL2 coverage roughly matches up to the EUBA footprint.
EUBA has some inherent technical advantages over BUBA as PenultimateHop pointed out, the handover to the ISP doesn't have to go via L2TP tunnel so doesn't have that overhead.

Sorry it took me so long to reply, I forgot about this thread.

My understanding is Telecom Wholesale has now started to reject requests to change a profile of a line to ADSL2+ if it's on BUBA. Since BUBA is not sold or advertised as an ADSL2+ service, they have the right I guess. So if you're already on ADSL2+ you're probably fine even if your ISP is using BUBA but if your not for whatever reason you're SOL.

In my case, I used to have ADSL2+ then for some reason either when I was cabinetised or at some other stage just before, I was changed to an ADSL profile and have been stuck on it since. I approached my ISP about this and had them put in a request to change my line profile (back) to an ADSL2+ one but it was rejected by Telecom I think. At least, after some conflicting info, I was told that this is what happened by my ISP.

If anyone believes this is incorrect and Telecom Wholesale is not rejecting requests to change profile to ADSL2+ on BUBA, I would be quite interested to hear about that.

But if not, it seems what happened is something like this:

1) Telecom Wholesale launched EUBA0
2) Telecom retail move to EUBA0 for people in EUBA/ADSL2+ areas
3) Telecom Wholesale stop supporting ADSL2+ on BUBA

If I'm not mistaken Telecom retail have been advertising ADSL2+ for a long while, definitely before they moved to EUBA0.

So while perhaps Telecom wholesale decided they were wasting too much time on changing profile when they didn't have to or perhaps they're trying to encourage ISPs to move to EUBA0 by being more strict with BUBA, there are also some possible more questionable reasons for the change in policy. But I won't discuss that more.

Nil Einne

469 posts

Ultimate Geek

#386837 1-Oct-2010 16:54

Sorry it's too late to edit my last post. I just realised I forgot to thank people for their replies.

BTW does the vlan tagging really matter? Isn't it primarily for the CIR which is irrelevant for EUBA0?

Ragnor

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#386987 2-Oct-2010 00:38

Yeah my old earlier comments were in relation to EUBA rather than EUBA0.

webwat

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#386998 2-Oct-2010 01:53

I remember that Wholesale Faults were quite happy to put users on ADSL2+ profiles even a year ago except for a few cases. Sometimes a newly cabinetised user would be on ADSL for a while as part of the cabinetisation project. I presumed it was something to do with testing once the new cabinet had gone in, and I think the whole cabinet would get ADSL2+ enabled later on. They could be treating BUBA differently now since they aren't allowed to rate-limit individual users...

Time to find a new industry!

Cymro

283 posts

Ultimate Geek

#387182 2-Oct-2010 19:27

I'd seriously doubt Wholesale would refuse to put BUBA customers on ADSL2 profiles, BUBA is their migration path for old UBS services.

What are your modem sync rates?

Cymro

283 posts

Ultimate Geek

#387622 4-Oct-2010 12:21

Nil Einne:

If anyone believes this is incorrect and Telecom Wholesale is not rejecting requests to change profile to ADSL2+ on BUBA, I would be quite interested to hear about that.

Just talked to a friendly Telecom Wholesale SDM, he can't see anything suggesting they don't accept ADSL2 customers on BUBA, I'd suggest calling your ISP again, if they try and feed you the same excuse then ask for it in writing so that you can have ComCom get the red-hot poker out and have a "chat" with your ISP.

But if not, it seems what happened is something like this:

1) Telecom Wholesale launched EUBA0
2) Telecom retail move to EUBA0 for people in EUBA/ADSL2+ areas
3) Telecom Wholesale stop supporting ADSL2+ on BUBA

Sorry, but that calls for tinfoil hat cat:

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