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CYaBro

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#71854 18-Nov-2010 12:52
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This is going to be a long post / rant sorry!

Just in the last few months some of our customers have started having connection or speed issues.
There is no common denominator between them, they use different brands of routers, are on different ISPs and are in different areas so different exchange or cabinets.

I'll give a couple of examples.

The first one had been using a Micronet ADSL2+ router for almost a year with no problems on ADSL1.
Then after the cabinet got upgraded they were still only getting ADSL1 speeds.
I spent some time doing the usual troubleshooting but could not get the modem to get ADSL2+ speeds.
The status in the modem said that it was conencted using ADSL2+ but the sync speeds were still at ADSL1.
I swapped out the modem with a crappy D-link freebie and it worked great, with download speeds around 12-13mbps.
So I sent the modem back to the supplier to get it checked / replaced under warranty however they could not fault the unit on 2 of their internet connections but they sent a different modem to try anyway.
That replacement modem, which was a different brand, had the exact same problem at the clients site so I sent it back and the supplier replaced it with a Draytek modem.
This too had the same problem but luckily the Drayteks have lots of different firmwares available to work with different equipment in the exchange/cabinet.  So I changed the firmware and that got the Draytek modem working at ADSL2+ speeds.

The 2nd one bought a Draytek DV2710, for the 2 VPN tunnels, and that worked OK for a few weeks at the clients site, although we could not get a VPN connection from some remote sites (but that's another problem).
Then one day their internet speeds dropped to slower than dial-up.
Again we did all the usual troubleshooting but could not get the speed back.
We tried two other modems, a D-link & a Netcomm, and they both worked great.
I also tried about 9 different firmwares on the Draytek which all had the same slow speed problem.
So I sent the Draytek back to the supplier for checking / replacement and again they could not fault the unit on their 2 internet connections.  They have sent the unit back saying it's not their problem.

These are just two examples, there are more that have had similar problems.

So my question is is anybody else around the country getting problems like this or is just us up here in Whangarei / Northland?
What can we do about it and who should be footing the bill for problems like this?
The client can't be expected to as the modems are under warranty, there is obviously nothing wrong with their wiring as other modems work fine and they haven't done anything to cause the problem.
The supplier can't fault the units we send back to them so they aren't going to pay for anything.
In fact in the first example above, the supplier said they shouldn't have sent a Draytek as a replacement as they didn't realise that the original Micronet was almost a year old so we were lucky with that one.




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sbiddle
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  #406360 18-Nov-2010 18:05
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There are certainly some "performance" issues with the various ISAM line cards out there. The new VDSL2 ones in particular do have some noticeable issues with modems that worked fine on the old gear.



rogal
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  #418460 17-Dec-2010 11:41
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Chorus/ Telecom Wholesale began upagrading their equipment at the Raglan Exchange to ADSL2 on Monday 13th.  Dec. Many older BB modems no longer work.  Five days later on the 17th Telecom Whoelsale are now saying that "most" BB users in Raglan have service.

But I know many who still haven't got service.  Perhaps "most" means 51%.

webwat
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  #418463 17-Dec-2010 11:53
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Tell you ISP what model modem you have problems with and ask them to check whether there are compatability issues with Telecom's gear. Telecom will be aware of some ADSL2 issues but is probably trying to build a picture of which ADSL2 modems don't like the VDSL2 cards.




Time to find a new industry!




rogal
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  #418481 17-Dec-2010 12:52
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That has already been done eight times.

sbiddle
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  #418511 17-Dec-2010 14:04
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rogal: That has already been done eight times.


What sort of modem?

The reality is there is no quick fix other than a new modem.

rogal
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  #418519 17-Dec-2010 14:22
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I suspect that you are probably right, but that is not what Xnet are telling me so far.  The current one modem is a Dlink 504.   I know of one Raglan person who has been sent a complimentary modem by Telecom.
I have now escalated the problem to the heads of Telecom Wholesale and Chorus.  I have been assured by them that "there will be a satisfactory operational response." - but no sign of one yet.

Ragnor
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  #418536 17-Dec-2010 15:40
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If I recall correctly the the gear that Telecom wholesale/Chorus have been putting into exchanges/cabinets is:

ISAM: Alcatel-Lucent 7302 ISAM NVLT-C
Line cards: IKANOS C05

Previously I believe they used Broadcom line cards but the older cards don't have VDSL2 support so they are probably replacing all of those eventually.

There are quite a few reports on GZ and gpforums of older modems having weird issues like lower than expect upload rates and so on so there are defiantly some compatibility quirks... however who knows whether it's the old modem not following the spec for ADSL2+ properly of the IKNS line cards (good lucky trying to get to the bottom of it).

The fastest and simplest solution is to get a new modem/router... for those that are using Telecom as their ISP it's pretty easy to get a free modem out of them imo.. for other ISP's not so much.

For a basic modem/router that works well with the newer hardware I'd just get one of those <$60 TP Link TD8840's, for wireless and gigabit there are a quite a few options.








 
 
 

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  #418542 17-Dec-2010 16:07
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Thanks for the information.  I've heard that they also had the same major problems problems at Matamata when they did the upgrade there recently.  I've pasted in below the response from the Telecom PR person with my comments back to her:



Hi Emma

 

In my email to Mark  I specifically asked not to be sent some PR nonsense.   My background is that I am a Telecommunications engineer who specialized in data communication for many years.

 I was Telecom's first Marketing Manager and a senior manger in Telecom for many years.   Your email just simply does not make sense.

 Firstly, our apologies for the lack of service you and others in Raglan have experienced this week. Our staff across the business are working together to ensure your service is reinstated as quickly as possible.

[rogal] That's good.

 Prior to the exchange upgrades all internet service providers (ISP’s) are informed by Telecom Wholesale so that they can contact their customers to upgrade their modems in order to get the maximum benefit from the new technology

[rogal] Your web site says that Raglan will be upgrade before the end of 2011.  If that is the information you have given the ISPs then it is useless.  You need to place adverts and issue press releases yourself.

 However we have encountered a small number of other service issues with homes that are some distance from the exchange. In these situations, it appears that following the upgrade, because customers served from the exchange are now running higher DSL speeds, this can interfere with and compromise the service of those at the edge of broadband service.

[rogal] That may well be true.  It doesn't relate to the situation at the Raglan Old School Arts centre which is about half a km from the exchange.

 In light of what has happened we are reviewing our processes to ensure this isn’t repeated as our nationwide programme of exchange upgrades continues.  We realise we need a clearer set of external communications so that residents are aware of the upgrades and have the necessary contact information should they experience connectivity issues and we are investigating the most effective way of implementing  this for subsequent upgrades

[rogal] You certainly need to do that.  What Telecom has done to date demonstrates incompetence in both marketing and technical fields.

 We understand this has been very frustrating for you and we sincerely apologise to you and all affected customers.  These upgrades are a good news story for New Zealand towns like Raglan

[rogal] How can businesses being without service for a week be a good news story.  Get real!

 I've just visited the Arts Centre and the broadband is still not working.  I tracked down one man in a Chorus van.  He denied all knowledge and said he was contractor and not Chorus.

 

Regards,

 

Rodger





Ragnor
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  #418584 17-Dec-2010 17:28
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Look if it gets escalated far enough for Telecom to seriously look into it they will contact their vendor and you know "by default" the vendor is going to say it's the modem's ASDL2+ implementation at fault (especially for older models).

If you talk to the modem vendor they will say they no longer provide firmware updates for discontinued models and/or they will blame it's the line card / isam.

You could go in circles for awhile!

For a practical solution, here's what I would do personally:

1: For any modem that is having problems, check for firmware updates.

2: If there are no firmware updates for the model and the ISP is Telecom convince/charm them into sending a new modem, may need to go onto a 12 month contract but most people don't change providers so don't care about that.. free Thomson = problem solved

3: For customers with other ISP's replace their current model with a $<60 TP Link TD8840, if you want to continue to use wireless and other features of whatever they have already you can connect the devices in PPPoA Half Bridge or WAN Bypass.

That's my 5cents.

Links:

TP Link TD 8840 (modem, 4 port switch, broadcom chipset)
http://www.gearbot.co.nz/store_products/search/TP%20Link%20TD%208840/ 

PPPoA Half Bridge (old guide but you get the idea)
http://www.ben.geek.nz/2006/11/adsl-routing-solution-in-detail/

Connecting a router/modem to a router via WAN Bypass
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=933517

tombrownzz
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  #418620 17-Dec-2010 19:09
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CYaBro which isp are the people who are having problems using? Did the isp send them a broadband modem as part of their setup fee? If they did then if the modem doesn't work with the isp's gear I think that is fraud so they could make a complaint with the commerce commission.

rogal
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  #418653 17-Dec-2010 20:36
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Emails to and from Telecom Wholesale


Hi Rodger
 
Nick is currently unable to respond to your email and has asked me to get back to you on his behalf.
 
I can confirm that we have a technician at the the exchange and he has put the Arts Centre back to the ASAM port.     A port change is currently being processed and service should be up and running within the hour.
 
This is an interim solution to provide broadband over the weekend, next week we will issue a replacement modem free of charge.
 
Regards

Emma Blackmore
 


From: Rodger Gallagher [rodger@raglanartscentre.co.nz]
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 5:56 PM
To: Nick Clarke
Cc: Bruce.Holloway@WaikatoTimes.co.nz; thorleysymes@gmail.com; maybee@xtra.co.nz; news@tvnz.co.nz; Mark Ratcliffe; Emma Blackmore; jacqueline@raglanartscentre.co.nz; help@xnet.co.nz
Subject: RE: Disruption to broadband service - Raglan



Hi Nick

 

A man from Chorus has now visited the Raglan Old School Arts Centre.  I was contacted and after I arrived I watched him check the Broadband connection.

 

It worked OK with a DSE modem with good speeds.

 

He said I should phone Xnet as the ISP and tell them that the modem needed reprogramming.

 

I phoned Xnet and went through several iterations of changing settings on the DSL 504 and rebooting it each time.

 

It failed to synchronise.  Xnet then said I could upgrade the firmware if an upgrade was available.  Or if none was available to buy a new modem.

 

I have checked and no further firmware upgrade is available for the DSL 504.

 

That leaves the option of buying a new modem.

 

Mark Ratcliffe said that there would be a "satisfactory operational response."

 

I find the situation totally unsatisfactory.

 

A modem that worked until Sunday stopped operating on Monday when your new broadband equipment was installed in the Raglan exchange.

 

Because of your company's actions the Arts Centre will have to buy a new modem to restore service.

 

A non-profit community organisation is being forced to spend its scarce cash as your equipment is not backward compatible.

 

Our administrator has been unable to communicate by email since Monday.   Enquiries and responses have backed up.  Our wages bill will go up to cover the backlog.  I have wasted hours checking the modem throughout the week and talking to service staff.

 

You need to do much better.

 

0/10 to Telecom Wholesale.

 

Regards,

 

Rodger Gallagher




NZFINEST
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  #418660 17-Dec-2010 21:26
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Could be that there are  different software version's opperating on 1 ISAM to another. I have heard of this happening in other countries where the ALU 73200 is deployed




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  #418662 17-Dec-2010 21:31
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Which could effect 1 box differently from another. I have a Thompson supplied by telecom and have issues with it dropping out now and then, but at the sametime have a linksys which on the same line which i have used and when i was moved to a cabinet had never ending issues


who knows....................




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sbiddle
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  #418668 17-Dec-2010 21:50
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NZFINEST: Could be that there are  different software version's opperating on 1 ISAM to another. I have heard of this happening in other countries where the ALU 73200 is deployed


It's not so much a case of differnet software, but different (newer) linecards in the ALU ISAM's to support VDSL2. Many older modems struggle to sync with the newer multimode line cards compared to the older DSLAMs, it wouldn't surprise me if somewhere like Raglan was still on an original Nokia N50.


NZFINEST
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  #418676 17-Dec-2010 22:30
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It's not so much a case of differnet software, but different (newer) linecards in the ALU ISAM's to support VDSL2. Many older modems struggle to sync with the newer multimode line cards compared to the older DSLAMs, it wouldn't surprise me if somewhere like Raglan was still on an original Nokia N50.



well if it is a case of different L/C in the ISAMs or software you will have a lot of different combo's out there that people are opperating off

i have read that soon there will be L/C in the ALU 7302 that will surport fibre connections { from road side cabinets as well ] for upto 100m for some of telecom wholesale bussiness priducts products, ie hsns




Anything I suggest or say is my own thoughts and not provided by anyone else unless stated

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