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Topic # 8344 22-Jun-2006 13:17
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g'day

does anyone know the details surrounding this topic?  my dad wants to get broadband on however he has a house alarm already installed that is monitored via the phone line.  he's been told he will need to get a 2nd line installed in order to get the internet connected.  thus he will have to pay for a 2nd line to be installed (around $150), then pay a 2nd monthly fee to a telco...so essentially he would have to pay 3 bills per month - 2 phone lines and the internet.  seems a bit rough!  is there any way around this that anyone knows of?

any help appreciated.

ta

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  Reply # 39311 22-Jun-2006 13:34
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Hi gehenna. I have a monitored alarm and broadband and I'm sure many people do. Because however the alarm is tapped into the phone line and you can't just plug a filter in to the alarm dialer, you would be best to have the 'Full Install" option carried out, which installs a splitter and a separate jackpoint installed next to where the ADSL modem will sit (purely for ADSL). The splitter is usually installed in the demarcation block outside. The other advantage is that you will not have to plug filters into the jackpoints at each phone in the house.

[edit] The reason for this installtion method when a monitored alarm is involved, is because without the splitter, when the alarm dials out, your ADSL would be disconnected. Only a hassle when you come home, unset the alarm and rush quickly to your PC. You might have to wait a minute or so for the alarm to finish dialing, reconnect the line to the phones etc and then wait for the ADSL to reconnect.[/edit]

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  Reply # 39338 22-Jun-2006 15:13
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The full install option does let you keep the one phoneline - we did that.
Our phone still does not work as the alarm dial (as you would want / expect) but the ADSL doesnt disconnect.
(Until tuesday anyway :D )

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 39340 22-Jun-2006 15:26
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The only purpose of a splitter is to ensure that the frequencies used by ADSL are not used by any other devices. The central splitter does this when the cabling enters the house so you can have dedicated sockets for ADSL and not have to bother about a filter on each one.

The alarm will only interfere with ADSL when it has to dial out to the security company. Normally this will only be when it is activated and maybe once per week for a health check or if you've got a more advanced system every time the alarm is activated and deactivated as well. Considering you're unlikely to be using the internet while this is happening it's not necessarily a big deal.



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  Reply # 39342 22-Jun-2006 15:34
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thanks i appreciate the info.

have passed on to my father.

you would have thought the isp/telco would have known to tell him this at the time he called - but then i guess the telco is more inclined to want to convince him a 2nd line is needed to get more $$ out of him.  don't you just love how they try to do the best thing for their customers :)

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  Reply # 39359 22-Jun-2006 18:07
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Welcome to the world of Telecon

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  Reply # 39360 22-Jun-2006 18:27
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gehenna: thanks i appreciate the info.

have passed on to my father.

you would have thought the isp/telco would have known to tell him this at the time he called - but then i guess the telco is more inclined to want to convince him a 2nd line is needed to get more $$ out of him. don't you just love how they try to do the best thing for their customers :)


I would bet money that the version of events has been skewed somewhat from the original conversation. My sister-in-law made the same call and was told that she only needs a splitter. She mentioned the option of a 2nd line - the prices were quoted but she was discouraged because of the ongoing cost.

Any chance we are dealing with a case of chinese whispers?




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  Reply # 39361 22-Jun-2006 18:34
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no chance.  while i agree dealing with a parental IT issue is never the most entertaining of passtimes, my father is in fact a very clear minded logical person and he takes attentive note of the details given to him whenever he is in the market for something new.  i have no doubt in my mind that what he has told me was what actually transpired in his discussion with the telco.

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  Reply # 39362 22-Jun-2006 18:51
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Then he got told the wrong thing obviously. I had broadband installed before the monitored alarm was installed. When the tech came out to instal the alarm I gave him the filter (bought one from DSE before he came out for $20) and he put that in.

This has made me wonder - would it be cheaper if the alarm company were to come out and just instal a filter (5 min work) onto the alarm then you only have to order the self installation (no charge under current promo). Might be worth a call to alarm company to see if this is an option.





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  Reply # 39371 22-Jun-2006 20:06
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Its all bunk, just make sure your security system is not wired to disconnect the rest of the house when it wants the line.

The real issue is that some alarm systems are wired such that the incomming line is wired directly to the alarm system then onward via seperate set of terminals on the alarm system to the rest of the in house install. When the alarm wants the phone line it then has the ability to switch the house line out and take control. Total crap idea unless you are real paranoid about secruity. The onward feed can sometimes be such that you can never get a adsl circuit though it due to filtering.

To operate with broadband you need to ensure that the security system is just another device on the line, not a controlling device that can cut downstream services. Naturally the security system needs to be behind a filter like any other POTS device.
 
The broadband conscience way of wiring is to just treat the security system as another device, thus fit it with a filter just like other POTS devices, ensure that the security system is not wired via a bypass relay such that it can take command of the line regardless of what else is using it, otherwise your adsl service will go awol.

There is absolutely no reason to not have a security system and adsl, it just means that the security system is wired appropriately.

Cyril

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Reply # 39374 22-Jun-2006 20:23
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cyril7: Total crap idea unless you are real paranoid about secruity.


Are you insane? this is a wonderfully splendid idea ... eg PANIC BUTTONS
Its just common sense to do this - its why they do it!

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  Reply # 39375 22-Jun-2006 20:30
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If you want your Security system to take hold of your direct incoming phoneline at will, then dont expect it to work with adsl, simple as that.


The correct method to allow all normal services, is that the incoming line goes directly to you adsl modem, the same direct incoming line should go via a adsl filter to each pots device. If you want a on demand security system that can bypass all pots devices and take control of the line, then the incoming line should go straight to your adsl modem, the incoming line should also go via a adsl filter to the security system input, the switched output line of the security system (post adsl filter) should then go on to other pots devices. This way should the security system demand access to the pots service it can (dumping all other pots services in that action) but the direct line still goes straight to the adsl modem.

Whatever you chose to do , there is absolutly no reason that you cannot have both adsl and full security, its all a matter of ensuring that the line feed and filters are correctly placed. This should not cost any great amount to set right.


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  Reply # 39415 23-Jun-2006 09:20
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cyril7: If you want your Security system to take hold of your direct incoming phoneline at will, then dont expect it to work with adsl, simple as that.


My security system has line control (takes hold of the direct incoming phoneline), and I have ADSL. There's no ADSL disconnection during alarm communications. Back to my original post, with a correctly installed splitter the alarm dialler can function as it is designed to do in a secure manor with line control and you have uninterupted ADSL.

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  Reply # 39419 23-Jun-2006 10:29
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My post clearly states, that if you have the security system wired to take hold of the direct incoming line then you will have issues with ADSL.

As I said in my post, the correct wiring method is to place the splitter directly on the incoming line, and take the direct incoming line to the adsl modem. The pots filtered section can then go to the security system, then the on switched line from the security system can go to all pots devices, no furhter filters are needed other than the fist one on the incoming line.v This way the security system can still seize the pots service at will, but the adsl service contines unaffected.

Sorry if my previous post was vague and jumbled, was posted too late at night.

Cyril

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Reply # 39422 23-Jun-2006 10:31

Firstly, you can't blame the whole of Telecom for saying this person needs two phones lines for the alarm and broadband to work in conjunction, it comes down to the person you are talking to at that particular point in time and them no knowing and/or understanding the more technical side of things...........

You have a number of options to fix this, the cheapest is to get an alarm tech to come in and put a filter running straight off the alarm into the phone line.  The most expensive option is to have your phone lines completely filtered via your telco (really expensive).  There is a thrid medium priced option which is to have a splitter put in at the beginning of your phone line junction (which once again requres an alarm tech to come out).

I hope this is helpful to you.............. if you do have an alarm and are moving to broadband it would be a brilliant idea to contact your alarm company and check with them first. ( they are really helpful).



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  Reply # 39426 23-Jun-2006 10:52
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thanks again guys.
dad has left a message with the sparky who installed the alarm as he's a family friend so he should be able to get everything up and running cheaply.  if not, well it's his birthday next week so i told him i'd get the full install done for him if he needs it :)
really appreciate all the help on this.  great site you have here....although my status as a wannabe geek is rather insulting LOL

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