Buying IP Addresses

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raytaylor

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#86870 14-Jul-2011 17:15

So
When APNIC runs out of ip v4 addresses, people have been saying a new buying / selling market for v4 ip addresses is going to come.
Microsoft recently bought up a large chunk of ip addresses off a failed company for something like $5 each.

I am soon to be in the market for a block of ip addresses, and dont know if i am going to get some in time, and I cant find any brokering websites (and dont know if they exist yet) to find prices to plan ahead.

Anyone know if any of these v4 address brokering companies exist yet?

Ray Taylor

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Zeon

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#493442 14-Jul-2011 17:42

Try and get them from APNIC ASAP IMO, I think they are still issueing them. How's your transition to IPv6 going? You'll probably end up having to dual stack your clients with carrier NAT and IPv6 if you don't already have a big block.

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raytaylor

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#493509 14-Jul-2011 20:35

my upstream isp charges $5 per month per ip address, so as soon as my investor comes through with some money, im going to be getting a block of 256. But that could be a month or more away if the deal goes ahead. If I get them in time, i would only need to pay $5 per year per ip address from apnic.

My radio provider doesnt support ipv6 built in though its on their firmware map, but by placing a ethernet router instead of doing it inside the radio at each home will be pretty easy.
In the mean time, i am trying to get my head around 6to4. i plan to work out if i can put a 4to6 server at the front side of my main gateway so computers with win7 and vista can get ipv6 access to the web sooner and without significant cost for a new router. If they want it on an xbox or other computer, then they would need to get themselves a ipv6 ethernet router which i preprogram and supply or wait until the firmware in my rooftop radios supports it.

Ray Taylor

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wjw

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#493680 15-Jul-2011 11:41

You really need to get onto APNIC Now, however you will need to be a member, which will cost quite a few $$$$'s also its now REALLY hard to justify IP's I did a justification for a /16 in 2009 and even that took about 7 months of tooing and froing. Tried for two different companies last year and only managed to justify /20's based on the new guidelines.

Beccara

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#493682 15-Jul-2011 11:45

APNIC is only handing out /24's to new members and thats IT

Most problems are the result of previous solutions...

All comment's I make are my own personal opinion and do not in any way, shape or form reflect the views of current or former employers unless specifically stated

PenultimateHop

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#493714 15-Jul-2011 13:27

Beccara: APNIC is only handing out /24's to new members and thats IT

Actually APNIC will allocate up to a /22 if justification for such a prefix is there.

Beccara

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#493715 15-Jul-2011 13:32

Reality of trying to get a /22 is different tho, They are pretty much handing out /24's and asking you to come back when they are full upto a /22

It also doesn't sound like Ray is a current APNIC member which means forking out $4k AU to sign up

kyhwana2

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#493738 15-Jul-2011 15:01

The only v4 blocks you can get from APNIC is a SINGLE /22 and that is for IPv4 to IPv6 migration/tunneling.

I would suggest getting onto your hardware OEM and push them for IPv6 support sooner rather than later. (As well as the router's you're planning on using).

Windows 7/XBox 360's already support v6 out of the box, but you'll probably end up having to NAT44 a bunch of customers on any v4 IP's you can get. (CGNAT. Which means they will end up being doubled NATed)

Ragnor

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#493755 15-Jul-2011 15:42

Most regular consumers and businesses don't need dedicated ip resources, it only really effects ISP's, content providers and web hosts.

Most of these that have been around for awhile have plenty of address space.

raytaylor

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#493792 15-Jul-2011 17:11

Yea, Im a new ISP with 30 existing customers being double natted.
I would like to provide a public ip address to their rooftop radio but im not yet an APNIC member. I will also need the v4 addresses for future use, so as soon as i can get them, i will be.

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kyhwana2

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#493793 15-Jul-2011 17:20

raytaylor: Yea, Im a new ISP with 30 existing customers being double natted.
I would like to provide a public ip address to their rooftop radio but im not yet an APNIC member. I will also need the v4 addresses for future use, so as soon as i can get them, i will be.

Unless you can get public v4's from your upstream, you're out of luck.

You will need to be an APNIC member to get your own v4 and you won't get any v4 IPs from APNIC unless you're planning on using those 1024 v4's you can get (and that's it) as a transition mechinism. (6rd/DS-lite/NAT64).
(This is the last /22 of v4's each member can get from APNIC)

See http://www.apnic.net/policy/add-manage-policy#9.10
http://www.apnic.net/community/ipv4-exhaustion/ipv4-exhaustion-details

PenultimateHop

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#493961 16-Jul-2011 11:47

kyhwana2: The only v4 blocks you can get from APNIC is a SINGLE /22 and that is for IPv4 to IPv6 migration/tunneling.

That is incorrect. An APNIC member (new or existing) may request IPv4 resources up to a maximum size of /22, in any configuration of /22, /23, or /24. You could go back to on several occasions APNIC for four /24s if you wished to.

There's no requirement for it to be used for migration or tunneling.

(As a side note, there's actually an interesting issue with APNIC's current resource holdings. They have more than a /8 of space available currently due to returned and reclaimed space, but there's no policy on what to do with it currently. IANA can't accept it, and APNIC can't re-allocate it as the final /8 policy has kicked in.)

Ragnor: Most of these that have been around for awhile have plenty of address space.

Plenty of address space perhaps, but maybe not plenty of available or unused address space.

Raytaylor: I would like to provide a public ip address to their rooftop radio but im not yet an APNIC member. I will also need the v4 addresses for future use, so as soon as i can get them, i will be.

Read the APNIC Resource Guides carefully and ensure that you qualify, and appreciate that it is not a cheap affair. You will need to demonstrate need for a /23 within a year and have used a /24 from your upstream provider(s).

You will almost certainly find it easier and most cost-effective to use provider-assigned space if it is a small business. This does present constraints that you'll need to consider - your provider needs to have available address space to assign to you; if you change provider you will need to renumber; you may find multihoming challenging if you are assigned multiple long prefixes, etc.

kyhwana2: You will need to be an APNIC member to get your own v4 and you won't get any v4 IPs from APNIC unless you're planning on using those 1024 v4's you can get (and that's it) as a transition mechinism. (6rd/DS-lite/NAT64).
(This is the last /22 of v4's each member can get from APNIC)

The bolded part is incorrect.

wjw

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#494556 18-Jul-2011 11:02

Another justification for applying for a /24, is if you have a need to be multihomed, ie you have or are planning to have connections to multiple ISP's

Ragnor

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#494800 18-Jul-2011 15:27

Intial APNIC registration is $4000ish AUD, then around $1000 AUD per year. It's too much for most small businesses eg: a business with 30 customers.

This pretty much just leaves "renting" a /24 from your transit provider.

raytaylor

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#494805 18-Jul-2011 15:30

Okay so I worked it out to be about $6,500 to get started for the first 12 months, then yeah about $1000 per year.

I am capable of paying this as it does need to be done at some point.

So as I understand
1) New members (me) are allowed to get up to 1024 addresses from the remaining pool
2) Existing members (telecom, telstra) are able to get up to 1024 and thats it for them
3) I have to have used all my addresses from my upstream provider (1)

Ray Taylor

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