Why didn't Telecom release 24Mbit ADSL in June?

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HSDPA2006

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Topic # 8699 22-Jul-2006 23:01

Any ideas why Telecom did not release 24Mbit ADSL at the end of June, as Theresa Gattung mentioned both on the Sunday program & Campbell Live shows earlier this year? She made a big song & dance about it being released then, but it never happened & last I heard it was being released in selected areas at the end of the year.

Does anyone know why we aren't getting 24Mbit ADSL now? I'm just curious and any constructive information would be handy to know.

Was it due to the massive drop in share value? Or was it wishful thinking on behalf of Theresa Gattung?

Thanks in advance.

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Reply # 42249 22-Jul-2006 23:33

You will probably find out that it was simply because it wasn't ready, or pricing wasn't completed, or billing isn't tested, or no support systems existed, or something else that prevented this going out.

Now that you mention it, why the question? Is it going to make a big difference if this is launched in June 2006 or September 2006, or December 2006? Is there a set time with some regulatory body that requires this?

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barf

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Reply # 42250 22-Jul-2006 23:39

if you are refering to ADSL2+ then you can answer your own question by google-ing and reading about it.
it's no easy task to upgrade hundreds of DSLAM RUs, upgrade modem-routers NTUs, CPEs, ensure QoS at the ATM level and etc.

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HSDPA2006

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Reply # 42251 22-Jul-2006 23:42

I was just curious as to why it hasn't happened, that's all. However, I think it possibly might of been an attempt to avoid LLU & when the Government introduced LLU, perhaps that put an end to it being released at the end of June.

There is no requirement by the Government for it to be released within a certain time frame, that I'm aware of. But thanks for adding some more possible reasons as to why it didn't happen. I appreciate your input.

freitasm

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Reply # 42252 22-Jul-2006 23:44

I thought LLU didn't cover ADSL2+ because of different technologies?

Or did I misunderstood it?

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HSDPA2006

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Reply # 42253 22-Jul-2006 23:49

barf: if you are refering to ADSL2+ then you can answer your own question by google-ing and reading about it.
it's no easy task to upgrade hundreds of DSLAM RUs, upgrade modem-routers NTUs, CPEs, ensure QoS at the ATM level and etc.

Yes, of course I'm referring to ADSL2+. I asked the question, in the hope that the experts on this forum, such as yourself could provide some input.

It would be interesting to hear from someone inside Telecom, who works in this area as well, to perhaps shed some light on the subject. I don't know if you do barf.

It will be very interesting to see what the pricing/data caps is like with this new technology. I also would imagine that ping times to gaming servers would be significantly lower as well, well, heres hoping at least.

nzbnw

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Reply # 42255 22-Jul-2006 23:55

It is my understanding that the roll out was to begin in June with commercial release in December 2006.

nzbnw

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Reply # 42257 22-Jul-2006 23:59

freitasm: I thought LLU didn't cover ADSL2+ because of different technologies?

Or did I misunderstood it?

Below is an exerpt taken from the government website:

"Requiring the unbundling of the local loop and sub-loop copper-wire lines between telephone exchanges and homes and businesses, allowing other Internet Service Providers to compete fully with Telecom to provide faster, cheaper broadband."

Won't a lot of Telecom's NGN be cabinetised? Therefore any new technogies will also be included in LLU, due to the "sub loop" also being included? Or am I way off track here?

HSDPA2006

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Reply # 42258 23-Jul-2006 00:12

nzbnw:
It is my understanding that the roll out was to begin in June with commercial release in December 2006.

nzbnw

This article below was published in the Sunday Star Times at the time of the announcement:

19 March 2006
By TIM HUNTER

Telecom is to start super-fast internet services as early as June, jumping the
gun on rivals waiting for a government review of telco regulation.
The new ADSL2 services will lift broadband download speeds from about 2
megabits a second to as much as 24mb/s. Upload speeds will increase from about
256 kilobits a second to around 1mb/s, four times as fast.
The Sunday Star-Times understands Telecom has been installing equipment for up
to a year. But the timing of its move may have implications for the regulatory
review now before communications minister David Cunliffe. Since February 14,
when prime minister Helen Clark named broadband internet as a priority for
government intervention, the market has been bracing for a revamp of the telco
sector.

It is not clear whether Telecom's jump to ADSL2 is a bid to ward off
regulation or a pre-emptive strike on the competition in the belief that
intervention is inevitable.

The market is gripped by uncertainty over Telecom's future, but some analysts
believe local loop unbundling, which enables competitors to install their
equipment in Telecom's exchanges, is the most likely outcome of the review.
Internet provider ihug has been strongly promoting unbundling, pledging to
invest $20 million in ADSL2 if Cunliffe's review decides in its favour. But CEO
Mark Rushworth acknowledged Telecom would have the jump on ihug. Even if
unbundling happened, it could be two years before rivals could offer their own
services.
"Of course it will make it harder," he said. "But by having access to that
local loop it'll level the playing field."
One analyst said Telecom had been wary of introducing ADSL2.

"In marketing terms, they weren't sure whether they would get away with
offering it to metro areas, or certain parts of metro areas. But now that there
is government pressure from the other end, Telecom is being pushed into a
corner."

Telecom's move comes amid growing concern about the handling of the regulatory
review. One market source says investors in New Zealand and overseas were
"spooked".
"The feedback from pretty significant investors overseas is like `hold on, we
thought your competition regulator settled all this years ago'."
The sense of risk has been acute since the prime minister announced an urgent
review of "policy, legislative, and regulatory settings" of broadband internet
services on February 14. The next day, Ministry of Economic Development
officials began meetings with market analysts, which did nothing to ease
concerns. One analyst said the government's sudden urgency over broadband was
hard to understand.
"Do you think that New Zealand ranks 18th in GDP per capita (in the OECD)
because of slow broadband speed? Or are we ranked 22nd in broadband penetration
because of low GDP per capita?
"There are more serious issues than broadband that this country needs to fix."

The government has several options to address the quality of broadband
-separating Telecom into a network operator and a retailer, unbundling the
local loop to allow competitors into Telecom exchanges, regulating unbundled
bitstream services to force Telecom to wholesale unrestricted broadband
services and variations on those themes.
Investor reaction to various options was canvassed in private meetings with
analysts, but the market was left none the wiser about government thinking.
"By going out there to talk about these issues the perception is that they had
a preconceived idea and they were looking for support from the financial
community to justify that outcome," said a source close to the talks. >
Another well-placed source said the ministry's approach could easily have been
misinterpreted.
"It is clearly looking at operational/ structural separation," said a source,
"but it is also looking at everything else under the sun."
Cunliffe would not give details of what was discussed in the meetings, saying
the aim was to listen to various views.
"The government is in the process of reviewing the telecommunications
regulatory environment to ensure the best possible outcome for New Zealand.

"We are listening to all the viewpoints and undertaking extensive research."

Source: Sunday Star-Times

freitasm

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Reply # 42260 23-Jul-2006 09:10

Good source, but the best source is the press announcements in the Telecom New Zealand site or a product page on the same site.

Until then, even when the word is coming out of an official of the company I just think of any "news" as rumours.

You should do the same.

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juha

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Reply # 42262 23-Jul-2006 09:30

freitasm: Good source, but the best source is the press announcements in the Telecom New Zealand site or a product page on the same site. Until then, even when the word is coming out of an official of the company I just think of any "news" as rumours.
You should do the same.

Ahem, I have many years of experience in dealing with Telecom and its press announcements. I'm trying to think of a good way to describe them, but "the best source" isn't one of them.

Anyway, Theresa said June. The spokestrolls said June. Telecom's managers said June (yes, I spoke to them directly).

The only thing that has happened is a limited technical trial for customers living 1.5km away from the Pakuranga exchange. ADSL2+ is from what I can tell another year away. Telecom needs to upgrade its network as the current access systems don't have sufficient backhaul capacity to handle ADSL2+ customers and there's the question too of the 14% of customers who get DSL via Conklin mini-DSLAMs, which are currently limited to 2Mbit/s backhaul only. Make of that what you will, but there is no doubt in my mind that Theresa and gang knew where the ADSL2+ rollout was when they spoke to the press and said "June".

As for the new regulation which amongst many other things specifies unbundling of the local and sub-local loop, yes, it does cover ADSL2+. That's not so important though at the moment. More important is the new Regulated UBS (RUBS) which also covers ADSL2+, can be delivered without the voice component and will not be restricted in terms of bandwidth, real-time (VoIP, gaming, VPNs) usage. Telecom's first attempt at delivering a better RUBS and CUBS is due in September. I've got a story in this week's Computerworld about it, so will post the URL when that goes up on their site (or you can go and buy the paper and make IDG happy) :)

Juha

HSDPA2006

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Reply # 42264 23-Jul-2006 10:34

Aha, thanks for that Juha, I knew I was on the right track & your post was very interesting indeed, it's great to have people such as yourself & the many others on this forum contribute with their wealth of knowledge, it's great stuff indeed.

Just a question with regards to RUBS, is this what TelstraClear are going to be releasing at the end of this month (as per a company email I received), or is this a completely separate agreement? I'm hoping, amonst many other things, that my gaming ping time will improve, both on local servers & international servers. I know that interleaving can add a significant amount of lag to ping times & I live 3km's away from my local exchange, in a nearly 3 year old rural subdision, which also doesn't help. Of course better quality VOIP would also be great.

Also, with plain old ADSL (as I'm unlikely to be getting ADSL2+ anytime soon, if at all) will the backhaul also be improved? I'm of the understanding that Telecom restrict this to a significant extent, are you able to shed any light on how much this is currently & what it could be in the future?

Thanks in advance.

juha

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Reply # 42265 23-Jul-2006 10:51

HSDPA2006: Just a question with regards to RUBS, is this what TelstraClear are going to be releasing at the end of this month (as per a company email I received), or is this a completely separate agreement?

September will see RUBS with unrestricted downstream but 128kbit/s upstream, as per the Commerce Commission's determination on the Callplus and Ihug applications. However, Telecom also intends to come out with CUBS in the same timeframe that isn't restricted in the upstream direction. RUBS has to be implemented by Oct 26 at the very latest.

As for TelstraClear, they signed a commercial deal with Telecom last year for CUBS. This was after Telecom threatened to litigate over the RUBS that the Commerce Commission set out - and which is similar to the the Callplus/Ihug one.

TelstraClear never did anything with CUBS though, so we'll see what they're doing now. I'd be surprised if they release anything until the new CUBS is in place, but this is TelstraClear after all, a company that moves in mysterious ways indeed.

I'm hoping, amonst many other things, that my gaming ping time will improve, both on local servers & international servers. I know that interleaving can add a significant amount of lag to ping times & I live 3km's away from my local exchange, in a nearly 3 year old rural subdision, which also doesn't help. Of course better quality VOIP would also be great.

VoIP and real-time services like gaming are not officially supported yet - that will only happen when the new regulation is enacted, or if Telecom decides otherwise. Whether or not the interleave factor will be lowered or even taken off completely for connections as is the norm overseas remains to be seen.

If you're in a new rural subdivision, you may have ADSL via a Conklin mini-DSLAM. In that case, don't get your hopes up.

Also, with plain old ADSL (as I'm unlikely to be getting ADSL2+ anytime soon, if at all) will the backhaul also be improved? I'm of the understanding that Telecom restrict this to a significant extent, are you able to shed any light on how much this is currently & what it could be in the future?

It's not Telecom restricting the backhaul per se, but the equipment used. The current Alcatel ASAMs have only a single 155Mbit/s ATM STM-1 interface (over which you get around 125Mbit/s IP performance, after "cell-tax" and protocol overheads). Alcatel's new ISAMs have gigabit Ethernet interfaces instead, which should alleviate congestion but they're not due for widespread rollout until 2007 says Telecom.

If you really want to have better broadband soon, get together with the neighbours and form some sort of co-op. Build a Wifi network and buy wholesale bandwidth from someone. Once you ditch your landlines, it's bound to be cheaper than what Telecom offers. Telecom will also slash its charges to get your business back, plus upgrade the network.

Juha

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Reply # 42266 23-Jul-2006 11:34

Slightly OT I know, but I can't understand why the ComCom restrict RUBS to the upload speed of 128kb/s. I understand that by doing this, the maximum downstream speed will also be significantly limited to maybe 4.5-5Mbits tops? Is this determination due to the fact that Ihug & Callplus submitted the proposal before the LLU was introduced, thereby being restricted to the "old rules" for UBS delivery?

juha

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Reply # 42267 23-Jul-2006 11:42

HSDPA2006: Slightly OT I know, but I can't understand why the ComCom restrict RUBS to the upload speed of 128kb/s. I understand that by doing this, the maximum downstream speed will also be significantly limited to maybe 4.5-5Mbits tops? Is this determination due to the fact that Ihug & Callplus submitted the proposal before the LLU was introduced, thereby being restricted to the "old rules" for UBS delivery?

The low upstream was part of the ComCom's deal with Telecom - the regulated service would be limited so that it couldn't be used to cannibalise voice calling revenues with VoIP. It was meant to work as an incentive for Telecom to invest in its NGN.

The Callplus and Ihug determination is based on that deal.

Note that LLU has nothing to do with CUBS/RUBS, and that it forms just part of the new regulation. Calling the new regulation LLU is misleading.

Juha

nzbnw

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Reply # 42277 23-Jul-2006 21:01

Peter Nowak:

Telecom will roll out advanced broadband internet services capable of 24 megabits-a-second download speeds - 12 times faster than those now available - by Christmas.

The company is announcing today it will begin installation of the advanced services, known as ADSL2+, in June. Customer trials will begin soon after, with commercial plans to be offered by the end of this year.

- http://subs.nzherald.co.nz/topic/story.cfm?c_id=363&objectid=10374150

I know you guys (most of) are not exactly a fan of the heralds reporting, but this is more along the lines of that I have read in various places.

Cheers

nzbnw

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