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Behodar

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#98036 23-Feb-2012 17:23
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I currently have a residental TelstraClear ADSL2+ connection, approximately 15 Mb/s down and 1 Mb/s up. I'd like something faster but I'm having great difficulty with finding anything. Not knowing which ISPs use Chorus gear and which have their own, I've written to a few already:

TelstraClear
First of all, back when VDSL was in Telecom/Chorus trials (more than a year ago), and before any local cabinets went in, I contacted TelstraClear (my current ISP at the time) and said that I was interested in VDSL. This was subsequently logged with Telecom as an interest request.

Recently I contacted TelstraClear again, kicking off a long exercise in frustration.
The BizNet Premium service looks great; 15 Mb/s down and 4 Mb/s up. I asked TCL three things:
1. Whether this could be used on a residential line,
2. If not, the cost of a business line,
3. How much the data blocks cost.
I received a short response stating that the service is not available residentially, and my other two questions were ignored. I didn't reply to this because I had other ISPs to ask.

Hosting Direct
The VDSL coverage map showed it ending a short distance from my house, but I asked HD to run a line test because I know that the map is only an approximation. It came back negative. I asked about future VDSL expansion and was told to ask Chorus.

Chorus
Told me to ask Hosting Direct.

Telecom
I contacted the business department, on the basis that businesses are probably more likely to want faster upstream. Telecom informed me that the highest speed offered is 1 Mb/s, and that all business services are the same speed as residential. I was given a form (which I filled in) to pre-register for fibre but it looks like this could be a long way off if I wait for the Chorus rollout.

Snap
I submitted a VDSL line check through Snap's site and got the same results as Hosting Direct (so evidently Snap is also using Chorus equipment). Like I did with HD, I asked about future upgrades and this time I got a little more information; Chorus has no published upgrade plans for my area and it is "highly unlikely" that an upgrade will happen.

CallPlus
I know that CallPlus has its own gear locally (a friend with Slingshot got ADSL2+ well before Chorus did any work on it) so I hoped that I'd get some different results. I submitted a Dedicated Internet pricing request but this too came back negative, with the all-too-familiar "too far from the exchange". I also wasn't given any pricing information despite specifically using the pricing request form.

Orcon
I asked whether Orcon offers anything faster than 1 Mb/s three days ago but as of this writing I haven't received a response. Based on what I've had from the other ISPs, I'm not holding my breath.

Where to from here?
The common problem seems to be distance from the Chorus cabinet, which indicates that the vast majority of ISPs are using Chorus gear. If I'm not mistaken, fibre doesn't have this issue, but I'm having great difficulty with finding an ISP that actually offers fibre services. Orcon and Telecom both say that they'll have fibre services later in the year, but there must be ISPs that offer something now. Who should I talk to?

Is fibre actually the best option or is there another technology I haven't thought of that may be better? The data limits on 3G are too low for any practical use so I probably need a wired service, but as you can see I've had a nightmare when trying to find one!

Help! :)

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Behodar

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  #586151 24-Feb-2012 11:23
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Update: One of my neighbours is also interested in something faster (such as VDSL) and he was talking to a local Chorus technician yesterday. According to the tech, VDSL is available in our area and the Chorus maps are wrong. He called another tech and confirmed that VDSL is available.

I contacted Snap again and provided this information, and asked what's involved with placing an order (since I know that I'm in coverage). This request was rejected:

Unfortunately that upon further checking you would still be unable to get VDSL services at your address. I have run a prequalification check on your physical address.

This is due to the line attenuation of your property, which to the Dmark point the range for your property is 13 - 18 dB.
Chorus will simply reject any order where the attenuation is anything more than 10.8dB for VDSL. We cannot action this order.

So, I'm back where I started. If the Chorus database is wrong then how can I convince an ISP to provide me with service?



vexxxboy
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  #586164 24-Feb-2012 11:35
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Snap would have tested your line to see if VDSL was available and a viable option for your address. ie are you close enough to a cabinet for it to be worthwhile , by the sound of it your not so they wont connect you, im in the same boat and Snap could tell me what speed i would get if connected (18Mb/s) so it just wasnt worth it.




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Cymro
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  #586210 24-Feb-2012 12:59
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The pre-qual Chorus use is very conservative, I've seen VDSL2 lines in the past at 20dB that don't show a large increase in downstream sync compared to ADSL2, but do show a big increase in upstream.

Try Snap again, ask them to twist an arm at Chorus and agree to waive the min. pre-qual and run a trial connection to your home, just be willing to pay for the install and maybe having it backed out.

It will definetely be a non-standard scenario though, so just have to find the right person at Snap to take this on for you.



Ragnor
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  #586249 24-Feb-2012 14:02
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Have you considered HSNS? It's a Chorus service that all the ISP's resell.

HSNS Lite supports speeds up to 10Mbit/10Mbit and is delivered using SHDSL (Single-Pair high-speed digital subscriber line) technology over the traditional copper telephone network.

However it is expensive, eg: Hosting Direct pricing for 10/10 un-metered data is $300 + gst /month

 

Behodar

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  #586384 24-Feb-2012 17:42
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Cymro: Try Snap again, ask them to twist an arm at Chorus and agree to waive the min. pre-qual and run a trial connection to your home, just be willing to pay for the install and maybe having it backed out.

Thanks for the suggestion, however I suppose that I'll have to also convince Snap to drop the 12-month minimum term if it doesn't work. I see that WorldNet has a plan without a minimum term; I know that WorldNet isn't highly-regarded but I could still trial it...

Ragnor: However it is expensive, eg: Hosting Direct pricing for 10/10 un-metered data is $300 + gst /month

I'm afraid that's getting out of my price range. I don't mind paying a bit up-front for a new cable if it comes to that (it's all on poles around here so I can't imagine it being overly expensive) but I can't justify more than maybe $200/month.

I see that HD's 5/5 HSNS is $200/month but I don't actually need a symmetrical service. I'd be happy with maybe 15/5 but it seems that this isn't possible with HSNS. However, thanks for the suggestion, it's good to learn about more options!

kyhwana2
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  #586409 24-Feb-2012 18:35
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You'll either have to wait for VDSL or UFB to get higher up speed.

Although, have you checked for any wireless operators in your area?

Zeon
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  #586414 24-Feb-2012 18:49
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Where abotus are you? There could be fixed wireless options?




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jjnz1
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  #586449 24-Feb-2012 21:00
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Zeon: Where abotus are you? There could be fixed wireless options?


He doesn't want to pay anymore than $200 per month, therefore anything faster than a 2Mbps/2Mbps fixed wireless link is out of the question. (I even think from memory that is pushing it)

Fixed wireless providers normally now only sell symmetrical options. So 15/5 will be hard to find.

If you are interested in a fixed wireless link, and you are within the nationwide coverage footprint, talk to an ISP such as Snap, WXC, FX networks, or Unleash. Also you might want to check out Araneo.net.nz for a coverage map.

Why do you want a big upload speed? Also moving house might be your only option.

coffeebaron
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  #586458 24-Feb-2012 21:38
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Also some ULL providers do annex-m I think, so that might be worth asking around.




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Spyware
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  #586461 24-Feb-2012 21:49
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Behodar:

Where to from here?
The common problem seems to be distance from the Chorus cabinet, which indicates that the vast majority of ISPs are using Chorus gear. If I'm not mistaken, fibre doesn't have this issue, but I'm having great difficulty with finding an ISP that actually offers fibre services. Orcon and Telecom both say that they'll have fibre services later in the year, but there must be ISPs that offer something now. Who should I talk to?

Help! :)


Not possible to have a fibre service without fibre actually being connected to your house. You only get fibre connected to your house when it is connected to every other house in your street.






Spark Max Fibre using Mikrotik CCR1009-8G-1S-1S+, CRS125-24G-1S, Unifi UAP, U6-Pro, UAP-AC-M-Pro, Apple TV 4K (2022), Apple TV 4K (2017), iPad Air 1st gen, iPad Air 4th gen, iPhone 13, SkyNZ3151 (the white box). If it doesn't move then it's data cabled.


Behodar

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  #586556 25-Feb-2012 09:46
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Zeon: Where abotus are you? There could be fixed wireless options?

I can't believe that I didn't list my location in that wall of text up there! I'm in Whakatane, and I'm behind a hill so wireless is probably not an option.

coffeebaron: Also some ULL providers do annex-m I think, so that might be worth asking around.

As far as I know, Slingshot/CallPlus is the only ULL ISP around here and I've already had a "no" from CallPlus (although it looks like the CallPlus service is actually HSNS rather than Annex M).

Spyware: You only get fibre connected to your house when it is connected to every other house in your street.

I'm a little lost here; surely it would only need to connect from my place back to the cabinet (and therefore to the ISP) and not to every other house. What am I missing here? I don't mind paying for my own fibre but i'm not going to subsidise the whole street!

Spyware
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  #586572 25-Feb-2012 10:13
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You are either talking about fibre to the home or not. The fibre services that will be available later this year refer to FTTH services that involve terminating the fibre at your house, which by the sound of it may never be available at your location. ADSL and VDSL involve fibre to cabinet and copper to house. These are NOT referred to as fibre services.

The thing you are missing is that fibre is only starting to be rolled out in respect to fibre to the home. Christchurch as an example has absolutely zero fibre to the home connections at present. First connections go live in June in Halswell after the cable is run and terminated.

ADSL2+ and VSDL2 cabinets have been around in some loactions for several years, if you are out of range then tough luck. More ADSL2+/VDSL2 cabinets are not being planned because FTTH will result in this infrastructure being completely removed.

UFB (FTTH) fibre rollout maps.

P.S. All ISPs use Chorus cabinets, the only exception is TelstraClear in certain large city areas.




Spark Max Fibre using Mikrotik CCR1009-8G-1S-1S+, CRS125-24G-1S, Unifi UAP, U6-Pro, UAP-AC-M-Pro, Apple TV 4K (2022), Apple TV 4K (2017), iPad Air 1st gen, iPad Air 4th gen, iPhone 13, SkyNZ3151 (the white box). If it doesn't move then it's data cabled.


Behodar

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  #586788 25-Feb-2012 20:48
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OK, let's see whether I'm understanding everything.

- With the exception of the non-standard install mentioned by Cymro above, it looks like VDSL2 isn't available, and is a "dead end" technology due to being superseded by UFB.

- HSNS provides fast speeds, such as 10 Mb/s symmetrical, but this is around $350/month after GST and is therefore out of my price range.

- Entry-level Chorus UFB, according to this document, is 30 Mb/s down and 10 Mb/s up.

- No ISPs are offering Chorus UFB services yet, but based on WorldNet and Uber Group pricing it looks like an entry-level UFB service will be somewhere around $100/month. It looks like these plans may be announced in about the middle of the year (?)

- The maps on the Chorus site only show the first year rollout, but if I'm reading this correctly then it looks like residential customers here in Whakatane are looking at 2016 and early 2017.

- As noted in a previous message, I'm potentially happy to pay for installation (of course this will depend on price) but thinking about it logically I need to wait for an ISP to announce/offer Chorus UFB plans before asking them how much it'll cost!

In a nutshell... it looks like I'm waiting until Telecom, Orcon, etc. announce UFB plans.

Ragnor
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  #586846 26-Feb-2012 03:28
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Depending why you want faster upload there are probably more options, eg:

You could get two ADSL2+ connections then use a load balancing router, it won't give you a higher max upload speed but you could be uploading to destination x over connection 1 and to destination y over connection 2.

Also if I remember rightly Snap experimented with bonded ADSL connections which would actually give you a higher combined max upload, not sure whether they got anywhere with it and whether they would offer it to the public.

camo786
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  #586862 26-Feb-2012 09:00
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Can someone explain to me what the legend on the UFB roll map means


When I type in my suburd, the legend shows light blue Chorus UFB Zone - but just what does that mean?  

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