chevrolux: If it's got to a point where they have turned off a service that is integral to the software

 

It's not integral to the software, as evidenced by the existence of a version that doesn't depend on that service. It's simply a case of the company trying to wring more money out of customers.

This is actually straightforward. It’s not going to be a great outcome for the OP, most likely.

the supplier took a licence fee and supplied a software product on a perpetual licence basis. This grants the user a licence to use the software in perpetuity. Not fixes, usage. The supplier changed their activation system and released an update to implement this. Subsequently the supplier removed the update from being generally available. All clear, so far.

the OP was not informed of the change in activation system or availability of the update. Nor the removal of the update. It seems that the supplier is not a NZ business.

the supplier needs to be requested to supply the update directly to the OP, who has been trying to achieve that and is having issues.

the reality of this situation is that the OP is going to be lucky to get the update, and if achieved it will be a triumph of dogged persistence. The references to ‘CGA’ are pie-in-the-sky - the reality is if the OP wants to go down the legal route it would be to a court in the suppliers home jurisdiction and wheelbarrow loads of money, and would be the very last resort available to the OP.

the reality here is the supplier most likely is not at all geared up to deal with this situation, and is about as hard to change direction as a supertanker versus a minnow.

Handle9: The OP has said that he bought the software from a NZ retailer. If there is a claim on the CGA or the FTA then it's the retailer's issue.

if the manufacturer won’t release the update, what can the retailer do? The reality of this is the large software company operating internationally is not going to do anything to remediate one person in NZ via their standard systems and processes. It will require either dogged persistence from the OP, or a court case in the home jurisdiction.

chevrolux: ... Windows 7 Luddites like to use. 

👶 get off my lawn you youngers!

👴 Windows 2000, rock solid & super fast, minimal resource usage. Yeah! 🤪

ANglEAUT:

chevrolux: ... Windows 7 Luddites like to use. 

👶 get off my lawn you youngers!

👴 Windows 2000, rock solid & super fast, minimal resource usage. Yeah! 🤪

BlinkyBill:

Handle9: The OP has said that he bought the software from a NZ retailer. If there is a claim on the CGA or the FTA then it's the retailer's issue.

if the manufacturer won’t release the update, what can the retailer do? The reality of this is the large software company operating internationally is not going to do anything to remediate one person in NZ via their standard systems and processes.

What are the T&C's on the original license , that the user would have agreed to when installing ?

No one can expect anything to be 100% supported forever.
Can I complain that its hard to get parts for my 30 year old car ?

Also, define " perpetual license" , as agreed to in the T&C's .
He still has a valid lic. That doesnt mean he gets support (ie activation) for the next 100 years

Many years ago we used to sell AV that came with ~free updates forever~ . 2 years later the product was discontinued & updates no longer available.
These things happen.
It could be argued that limited support life is expected for software .

Im not saying that its justifiable, its just reality .

1101:

 

What are the T&C's on the original license , that the user would have agreed to when installing ?

No one can expect anything to be 100% supported forever.
Can I complain that its hard to get parts for my 30 year old car ?

Also, define " perpetual license" , as agreed to in the T&C's .
He still has a valid lic. That doesnt mean he gets support (ie activation) for the next 100 years

 

Many years ago we used to sell AV that came with ~free updates forever~ . 2 years later the product was discontinued & updates no longer available.
These things happen.
It could be argued that limited support life is expected for software .

 

Im not saying that its justifiable, its just reality .

 

From what I can see the license doesn't discuss this. Basically it says if a customer purchases a license, they can use it for as long as they need it. There don't appear to be any clauses relating to them potentially disabling my ability to install it in the future, or anything regarding retirement of the licensing system server, that may prevent me fully  installing it. But it is written in 'legal speak' so there is possibily some 'out' for them contained in the wording somewhere, although I can't see where. But IMO something as important has this, that essentially time restricts and terminates the license,  should be clearly spelt out on the box, and not hidden away in pages of terms, as I understand it needs to be fair. 

 However the main point is that when they did turn off the activation server sometime between in 2017-19, they also released a special updated  version of the software for all customers who owned a license, that allowed customers to download a special version of the software without needing to use the activation server. This means those customers would never need to contact the software company ever again if they have problems activating it. So that pretty much shows that they knew they needed to provide an alternative method to allow customers to still install and use their software after they switch it off. So the only problem is that they didn't notify me of this, to then allow me to download that update, then they removed the ability for me to download it, and now refuse to provide me with that special version. So they should be providing me with that special update, if they have disabled their activation system. From what I was told by someone else affected by this, is that they may have removed that version after it was abused, and people were downloading it who didn't actually own a license, but that shouldn't affect legit owners, and they do know I am a license owner, and they are not disputing that I do own a license to install and  use it. 

If they had provided me with the 2017-19 update, then I would essentially be able to continue using and reinstalling the software for as long as I wanted on compatible hardware and an compatible OS, or even on a virtual machine. It is windows 7 era software and that is what I installed it on. I had my email address setup to receive updates, so there was no excuse for them not to contact me, and I do still get marketing emails from them. Infact they has said they can't explain why customers weren't contacted. It would therefore be common sense for them to provide me with that update and there would be zero cost for them.

Instead it would cost me. In terms of costs, it would cost me over $1000 per year to subscribe to the new version monthly, so over 10 years, that would be well over $10,000. But I understand that they do put prices up over time to subscribers, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was closer to 15k or more after 10 years. These SAAS companies do tend to raise their prices a lot over time, as customers have no choice but to pay the fee or spend a lot of time/money finding and learning to use alternative software, and their existing files would likely not open in other software .  Also I would then never own the software license, I can only use it for as long as I continued to pay for a subscription.  The original software I recall retailed for 2-3 thousand dollars, so not cheap, but did also expect I would be able to upgrade it in the future to newer versions,and I would have probably upgraded to a newer paid version, but they ceased providing the 'owned' version, and moved to this 'rented' model, which over time costs a lot more. I am still waiting to hear back from the retailer about it, so maybe they will be able to get it escalated up high enough to provide me with the updated file, which I believe I am entitled to, as the update was supposed to be for all owners of the license. .One problem is that retailers and their suppliers, do appear to have been largely cut out of the software market, as these companies now sell tend to sell subscriptions directly to customers. 

Ruphus: I have a suggestion and a couple of questions for the OP.

I know you are reluctant to name the software but are you able to advise what the software is used for as someone here might be able to suggest an alternative.

You mentioned that the software is "quite old". How long ago was the software purchased?

Do you use the software commercially?

Agreed, the software name and version would be helpful, maybe someone has the patch.

I read a story a few months ago (which I can't find now!) about a company that bought some software in the 90s with a perpetual licence, then recently got a "licence expired" message. It turned out that the "perpetual" licence actually expired after 25 years.

At first the company tried to pull the "it's not supported any more" excuse, but eventually relented. I believe the argument centred around "we paid for a perpetual licence and you didn't supply it" - and after a bit of back-and-forth the software company restored the licence generator from backup and generated a key that wouldn't expire (or maybe it'll expire in another 25 years!).