Any thoughts/comments on a proposed desktop build?

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JimmyH

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#138306 29-Dec-2013 18:26

I am about to bite the bullet and replace my creaking/aged dual-core desktop PC with a new desktop. It's new territory for me, and most of my hardware knowledge is sadly obsolete, so interested in any thoughts those with more knowledge have on my proposed build.

Purpose of the Build

It won't be used much for gaming, but will do some light gaming. It also won't be used for video capture (as other hardware will do this). It will, however, be used for a lot of video editing, transcoding and processing of the video I have either shot myself, captured (from Sky, Freeview etc) or ripped from the DVDs and Blu-Rays that I own. It also won't be used for the long-term storage of the processed video - a DLNA enabled multi-bay NAS will do that.

So, my thoughts are that graphics aren't terribly important (although I understand some video encoders can offload tasks to the GPU, which would be nice). What is important is processing speed throughput, and a decent amount of reasonably fast storage.

The main video editing software it will run is Vidcoder, Handbrake, Xvid4PSP and Virtualdub.

Proposed Build

- CPU - Haswell Core i7-4770 3.4GHz
- Motherboard - MBDGBM2825 Gigabyte GA-H87M-D3H Socket 1150,Intel H87 Chipset
- Ram – DDR3 1600MHz (either 8GB or 16GB)
- Drives – System (SSD - Crucial M500 mSATA 120GB 6Gbps), Working & software (Western Digital 1TB Caviar Black), File storage (Western Digital 3TB Caviar Green)
- Blu-Ray writer
- PSU - Cooler Master 525W
- Graphics - either none/onboard , or GeForce GTX 660 2GB 192bit GDDR5 Operating System – Windows 7.

Other Points/Questions

1. Not interested in Windows 8. At all. End of story.
2. Unsure whether Windows 7 should be Home Premium or Pro - are there any practical advantages to Pro?
3. Any reason not to go with the 64bit version of Windows?
4. Open to having two hard drives (one for software, one for video workspace/processing) rather than using the proposed 1TB Black for both, if there are any advantages to this?
5. Is there any practical benefit from 16GB of Ram instead of 8GB?

So that's what I'm looking to do. Suggestions and observations gratefully received. Let the comments begin...

insane

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#958736 29-Dec-2013 18:31

I'd buy your hard drives in pairs and RAID them, and spend good money on the components you interface with, keyboard, mouse and monitor(s), skimp elsewhere if you need, but not on the PSU, that also needs to be a good one.

Huggie86

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#958737 29-Dec-2013 18:34

I would still get a dedicated graphics card regardless of being a heavy gamer or not. Doesn't need to be anything expensive.

8 gig of RAM will be plenty. 16 gig is a waste of money for what you are going to be using the computer for.

If you wanted to save some money, you could downgrade the CPU to Intel Haswell Core i5 4670K 3.40GHz

There is no reason that I know of to not got 64 bit for windows 7.

homebrand

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#958751 29-Dec-2013 19:08

i would stay on a i7 cpu just for premium video editing, the i5's are good for skimping out on if you game but for video editing definately stay with the i7.
Dont use the onboard graphics card of the motherboard, get a gtx 660.
The power supply is extremely important for the system and dont get anything less than a 600W.
I would personally go for a z87 motherboard not an h87.
And if possible get a samsung 840 evo SSD 120gb as it has amazing reviews and is the fastest... I have one and my pc starts up in 4.5 seconds, its amazing
Stick with a 16gb ram because especially with editing it would be necessary and you wouldnt want to go through the hassle of getting another 8gb installed in the future because 8gb wasnt enough.

pgs2050

281 posts

Ultimate Geek

#958783 29-Dec-2013 20:18

Just a few points to consider (some contrary to the previous posts):

i7 - is more suited to video editing (has hyper-threading) when compare to i5

discrete graphics card - be sure to check the specific video editing software you will be using - some popular programs do not use the graphics card for any video processing and rely solely on the cpu - this is where the i7 will be a better choice over i5

ssd - although the samsung evo is probably faster in some order of magnitude than the m500, it is often recommended because of its reliability - this is a better ssd to consider

mb - h87 boards will be just as good as z87 if you are not overclocking the cpu - has all the same features except support for overclocking

ram - 16GB will suit video editing better than 8GB

power supply - you have not specified the exact model of choice - there are some models by cooler master that are best avoided - see this page for some recommended units http://pricespy.co.nz/forum/index.php?showtopic=1113

64 bit os - since you're going with >3GB of RAM you need a 64 bit operating system

Hammerer

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#958785 29-Dec-2013 20:43

Why forgo all the performance, integration and security features under the bonnet of Windows 8? The commonly expressed issues with the interface are non-events when you're in your applications. From my experience the main issue is usually related to drivers so make sure that you've got production drivers for your system. Are you also planning to use multiple monitors - it is worth looking at and provides another reason for getting dedicated graphics?
Windows 7 Professional has a higher 128GB RAM limit. You will hit the RAM limit of 16GB for Home Premium and you might be forced to upgrade sooner than you expect.
None, unless you wanted to show you could do this in less than 4GB of RAM.
Two drives will provide more options and better performance than one particularly if you only have 8GB RAM and no SSD.
Right now 16GB is probably the average for serious amateurs doing HD video editing and that is with a dedicated graphics card. Both 8GB RAM and integrated graphics, which takes a big bite of your RAM, will hit your performance and usability.

I'd recommend that you talk to someone who has 8GB RAM and does video editing or 3d visualisation. See how their system runs.

timmmay

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#958789 29-Dec-2013 21:06

Definitely the i7, and I think you'd get some benefit from 16GB RAM, even if just disk caching. 32 bit is not an option. Consider Samsung 840 pro SSD. If your video editing software can use hardware acceleration look at a decent video card, if not then built in or low end like an nVidia 620 1GB. Make sure your PSU is modular, helps airflow. Since you'll be using a lot of processing power get good fans, Noctuna if you can afford them, and maybe a case with one of those huge 140+mm fans.

JimmyH

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#958806 29-Dec-2013 21:24

Thanks, good useful thoughts there. Keep em coming.

So far, I think:

1. I will look at the EVO instead of the Crucial as an SSD, there doesn't seem to be a big price gap. I will also go with 16GB instead of 8GB for Ram and will keep the graphics card in the mix. Probably won't add a second Caviar Black (still considering), and will look at uprating the power supply. I will stick with the i7 and motherboard.

2. Second monitor not in the mix at this point - issues of workstation space as much as anything. I have an acceptable monitor, mouse & keyboard arrangement on my current box. I'm not buying new ones at this point, and will just plug the new box into the KVM that integrates my other kit- and finally decommission an elderly P4 XP box that isn't used any more.

I'm prepared to spend a little more to get a decent (somewhat over-specced) unit. In my experience this actually saves significant money over time, as it lets me have longer periods between upgrades.

@Hammerer - While I appreciate the advice, I'm happily prepared to forgo all of the "benefits" of Windows 8. Having tried to use it a while a go it's not a case of disliking it, it's more a case of loathing. I'll jump ship to macs or Linux before I ever acquire that abomination. Maybe they'll fix it by the time Windows 9 comes around?

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rhy7s

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#958833 29-Dec-2013 22:18

To give yourself the option of jumping ship, or running a fleet, maybe consider items from this list.

JWR

821 posts

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#958874 30-Dec-2013 05:53

IMO, most of the hardware sounds fine.

However :), this is what I would personally change....

- If you have a NAS, then drop the 3TB Caviar Drive.. Use LAN storage instead... GBit LAN is about as fast.

- Use saved money to buy more local 250GB+ SSD. I wouldn't buy an SSD smaller then 250GB. Keep the processing on SSD and backup the result to network NAS.

- I'd buy a couple of 8GB RAM = 16GB.. It's not that more expensive and you have only used 2/4 RAM slots.

- I use Windows 8.1 (skipped Windows 8) and I wouldn't go back to Windows 7. The ability to mount .iso images (without 3rd party software) might be particularly useful. I think there is a lot of unreasonable bias against 8.1:). Windows 8.xx is technically improved over Windows 7.

- I'd use a Modular PSU from someone like Seasonic, Corsair, Antec etc. - probably not coolermaster.

- No need to worry about a graphics card now as you can buy it later- as needed.

- Don't buy a Blueray writer unless you actually need to read/write Blueray disks now! I can't see that format lasting in the longer term.

timmmay

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#958876 30-Dec-2013 06:39

NAS storage can be really slow, and the latency is much higher than a local disk. Beware if you consider going that route.

About the comments saying no graphics card, do check if your video editing software can accelerate things with one. It could make a huge difference to performance.

JimmyH

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#959158 30-Dec-2013 17:22

I want the local storage, so will stick with that. Good point on the size of the SSD tho, and I will think about that.

Re: the Blu-Ray writer, I need a BR drive as one of my projects is to rip my BR collection, compress and transfer to NAS. I was contemplating the writer as I can land 50GB BD-R disks for about $3.60 in quantity, and was planning to burn the videos I had produced to these as my backups. Cheaper, easier to store, and far less fiddly than using DVDs.

I can already mount .ISO images on both my w7 Laptop and elderly Vista desktop. So still not interested in Windows 8. Ever. :-)

(If they provide an option to return the interface to the W7 one, eradicate *all* traces of Metro/Modern from ever being seen, get rid of the stupid hot corners and charms menus and restore Aero Peek, then they might be able to sell me Windows 9 at a future point).

timmmay

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#959205 30-Dec-2013 18:05

I have a 120GB SSD, no hibernate file, no swap file. Currently I have 55GB used, 63GB free. This is with office, Photoshop CS6, some development tools, and all kinds of other things installed - no games. I have some iTunes songs (not a huge number), bits and pieces. 256GB drive would be nicer, but consider what you really need. Standard hard drives are often fast enough for data that's being accessed sequentially, though I know little about video editing.

Windows 8 seems to provide a new file system that could help with disk reliability.

muzzIT

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#961465 5-Jan-2014 12:09

Hi Jimmy

Software - I would go with Windows 7 Professional, the difference in price is minimal however it will be supported longer than windows 7 home prem and I find I just get a better experience with Pro.

SSD - I've used the Samsung 840 evo seriers drives in a few of the builds I've sold and my customers are very happy with them.
240GB Would be the minimum I would go for video editing. By the time you install you editing software and a few other tools you will be getting close to 80GB with your Win 7 Pro install, having the extra space available if you need multiple software suites etc will make a big difference.

Motherboard - As stated before either the z87 is not going to give you any significant increase in performance over h87 other than overclocking.

CPU - stick with the i7 the Hyper threading will make a big difference with video encoding - If you are going to be doing video encoding for long periods of time I would recommend a decent CPU cooler (either air or water at your preference but not the stock cooler).

PSU - If you can get modular - they help with air flow through the case not having a big bunch of un-used cables hanging around etc. 600w will be more than enough for a single graphics card setup, i know FSP, Corsair and Antec all have very good high performance models that do not cost the earth at the 600w range. (try stay clear of the cheaper generic PSU units)

Graphics - That one is up to you, having a discrete graphics card could make a difference in the encoding times but that is something you can add at a later point.

General recommendations -

Don't skimp on the PSU. With this I mean don't buy a cheap one, stay within your watt range but get a decent quality 80 plus certified modular PSU as this is 1 item that if you get a good one can last you through more than 1 upgrade.

Get a good CPU cooler - I've used the Cooler Master Seidon 120xl on a i7 3770k and at stock speeds we are getting around 30 deg idle and 55 - 60 deg at full load.

I would get a good quality ram kit as well, for video editing which can be very ram dependent having a good quality ram module can help stop errors showing up under high load.

Anyway hope this info helps you in your decision.

Murray.

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#961479 5-Jan-2014 12:45

windows 8 is really a windows 7 cloaked in a spiderman suit. (it has every windows 7 feature under the sun but you need to find them). apart from the start button. but if you really don't want the performance and reliability improvements at the expense of spending a couple of weeks familiarising it then there is nothing more we want to say :D

i7
16gb ram (2x8gb exact pieces to maximise dual channel thoroughput)
64 bit
i'm going to suggest 2 separate hard drives in non raid - less complicated, faster transfer
if you are editing 1080p content get a 1080p 24 inch monitor (27 inch might see individual pixels)