Planning for a new PC build, need clarify a few things

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pstar008

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Ultimate Geek

#195987 14-May-2016 20:28

I am planning for a new PC build, nothing urgent, just feel that my i7 860 Lynnfield is bit long on the teeth and I want a better case than the current one plus SSD was 128 GB only. I am looking for buy one in a month or two so that I can still get the free Win 10 upgrade, unless there is a reason for other timing.

I only built a PC myself from components once like ten years ago. I also did a few upgrades such as add HDDs, graphics card or replace CPU coolers. But I would rather ask the shop to do it for me if I bought from shops with good reputation say Computer lounge. On the other hand, I do know from personal experience that some PC shops don't pay much attentions in put components together (it was thermal paste related and my AMD CPU started up overheating after a couple of years in my case) , thus can not be trusted and I would rather spend time assembly it myself in that case.

So I will start from requirements:

No need for new monitors, speaker, mouse/keyboard, otherwise a complete new PC box, I also don't need Windows License as I am planning to use my Win 7 Pro licence and got a free upgrade to Windows 10.

My roughly budget would be around 2k, up to 2.5K the less the better, but as I am expecting it to last at least five years or longer so a few hundreds bucks are not going to make much difference.

I am working as software developer, mostly web developers nowadays, but doing/learning Android development as hobby. And I quite often found that I need running virtual PCs which means I do need a TB level reasonable fast HDD, WD Black in my mind. And I am running Linux as my main OS with Windows dual boots for things like BIOS/firmware upgrade, or unlock my Android phone. So it will be 256 GB SSD/PCIE at least. I think I am better off with a i7, probably 6700k? I don't need O/C, been there, done that, it was fun, but I would rather have a computer which is quite and can reliable running for days. Choose the K one's as it seems better on spec? And 16GB of RAM, which is what I had with my current system. But will be new ones as it will likely be DDR4.

If I don't planning to play games in the near future (next couple of years), should I just skip integrated graphic card completed. Can I still got Displayport/HDMI for two monitors and even go with 4k, I currently only need one HDMI/Displayport with full HD the other is VGA. I think I will sooner or later want a graphic card as GPU for rendering or hardware acceleration which used to be required by Android development, but too lazy to check it now. My personal preference would be leave it out for now and bought a midrange one when I need it which could be easily half year or more later. The alternative would be buy a budget/midrange and slightly cheap one now just in case I need it? If I do need a graphic card I will go with a AMD one instead of Nvidia one as it have better Linux in-build driver as compare to Nvidia one which develop better driver themselves but the in-build driver in Linux is slightly worse than the AMD ones.

Then I guess whether I need a graphic card would make a difference to choose motherboard and PSU and case? Or let's just I assume that I need expandability for latter, but would rather leave it for now? Motherboard I would prefer I Asus one, as I am going to run Linux, the popular one and reputable brand would make my life easier just in case something went wrong and I need support or find the answer over internet which doesn't seems happen that often as it was ten years ago. Otherwise I really don't care much about motherboard's or don't know what to check.

I don't want a gaming case, but like the design of the new Corsair cases and might be Fractal design cases (not really familiar with the brand, assume they are as good as Corsair).

PSU, any quality ones will do I guess, as I am not planning to put a high-end graphic card in the system, but it would be ideally quite and power efficient, save the earth and easy on my pocket is not a bad idea.

Cooling, do I need a water one if I don't plan to O/C, otherwise I would go for a solution which is good enough, and need be reasonable quite i.e. I don't need a fan-less solution.

So, my first question is is my budget realistic, should I get a graphic card now or leave it, any reason I shouldn't plan to get a PC in June/July? And of course any suggestion/feedback?

Edit: update icon.

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#1552790 14-May-2016 20:53

Thermal paste is usual to dry out and need reapplication after a few years. That is why stock coolers usually have a thermal pad on them instead.

Also AMD. Yeah thats an overheat right there ;)

Richard rich.ms

pstar008

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Ultimate Geek

#1552797 14-May-2016 21:06

richms:

Thermal paste is usual to dry out and need reapplication after a few years. That is why stock coolers usually have a thermal pad on them instead.

Also AMD. Yeah thats an overheat right there ;)

Sorry, didn't realized that the thick conduct think from stock CPU cooler is called thermal pad instead of paste, I would think that I should getting the thermal pad, but I do remember that the thermal paste on the cooler is thin and uneven, and re-apply a paster fixed the over-heating issue for me.

Yes, AMD might be the issue, and mind you I did O/C it without knowing what I was doing.

Oblivian

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#1552798 14-May-2016 21:21

Due to some recent issues with my aging I5 (first gen! 45nm 2.6G) I too am looking at the current range. And it seems to be quite tough at the top.

Its a new socket format in its infancy still (1151). If you want to go back a step to 1150 its DAMN hard to find some in stock, and a (nice) motherboard to match it in the top Z/H97 series

At the same time the new CPUs although better, aren't cheap :( but the 170 chipset they're designed to be paired with do seem nice. The catch appears to be the CPU itself has integrated graphics GPU - most the boards have tripple head 4K capability just to beat the next and make the most of the chipset.

I'm a brand follower, so have been looking at my 4th Gigabyte range, but they all have their +s and -s of course. What you lack in BUS speed, you may gain considerably in the next model up - or add a nice feature like USB-C and M2 drive support

The CPU you mention is the 4 core hyperthread with more cache and yes, faster top end even if you don't overclock (which air cooling will be fine, these don't come with coolers now but are low power/heat so a reasonable coolermaster or the likes would do fine)

I was also looking at the Fractal R5 case. Apparently quite quiet.

Power supplies have taken a reverse trend. Where we got to a point where a 750W was needed for the basic gamer, it seems with the lower CPU and GPU cards these new I7/Z170s can even idle at as little as 85W.. including 2 HDDs! So middle of the road may suffice, however the K I7 is a 94W hog.

So theres definitely some things to think about with the current options. And as such, I'm wondering if I should sit back and await the next generation core in the skylake/6th range that's due out later in the year

A downer is the lack of Coaxial SPDIF out. That puts a strain on my home theatre positioning with the distance to the receiver a bit far for optical :(

Keep your eyes on the Z/Q170 and lastly H170 boards (in that order) - denotes the main feature set changes

So theres a few new 0-day technologies with the current range now supported to Consider...

if we want to ditch a standard SSD and move to a M.2 (which opens up a whole new door if you get standard or dual combination with crazy speeds).

to move to a SATA express port (new storage connector with 3 plugs)

If USB3.1 or USB-C connectors are important

Same tough spot I was when I built this board up really :( It was the first range to market with USB3 and SATA3, which at the time was not integrated so running off a Marvell chipset which is actually slower with an SSD attached, but you got 12 USB sockets with the phasing out of PCI cards and more devices available.

I tend to build with lower spec CPU/RAM but a reasonable board that goes the distance. And the current bottom end CPUs are still the same speed range and just don't scream out UPGRADE ME to a full companion set! given it'll be the $1600 mark when you consider case, mobo, CPU, cooler, PSU to keep the old kit running alongside :( .. yet.

richms

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#1552844 14-May-2016 22:10

I wouldnt say the 1151 is in its infancy, 1150 is basically extinct and 1151 is well and truly established.

Im waiting for things to settle out a bit before I will be retiring my current i7 4790 and mobo combo. To be honest it still does everything I need of it right now except have enough slots.

Depending on what the 1080s sell for locally when they hit the market I will probably get one of those and see what it does, since inorder to SLI my current card it would mean losing the USB3 or the ethernet card both of which I need. I had planned on getting another cheap 1150 board to replace this one, but the used ones are all stupid money and new there is only cheap trash boards left available.

I tried the onboard on this when my card was being stupid and it was able to do DVI and display port or HDMI and displayport at the same time fine, DVI and hdmi and display port did not work. I didnt try the waste of space VGA plug because I have nothing that will plug into it on hand since cleaning out the redundant cable pile. I expect the newer intel onboard will be the same at limiting you to 2 monitors.

I was also not able to get more than 60Hz out of the onboard thru displayport or DVI, I know on the nvidia I had to change it to a different 1080p mode that the windows driver doesnt expose, so that may be why the intel was capped at 60. I didnt really play too much isince it was just faultfinding and certainly not usable for anything gaming related with the onboard. It still crashed on video encodes so it wasnt the gfx card.

Richard rich.ms

Oblivian

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#1552847 14-May-2016 22:26

richms:

I wouldnt say the 1151 is in its infancy, 1150 is basically extinct and 1151 is well and truly established.

Badly worded, what I meant was to the NZ market there seems to be fewer CPU/board combo options, while there looks to be another around the corner in the US

Im waiting for things to settle out a bit before I will be retiring my current i7 4790 and mobo combo. To be honest it still does everything I need of it right now except have enough slots.

Depending on what the 1080s sell for locally when they hit the market I will probably get one of those and see what it does, since inorder to SLI my current card it would mean losing the USB3 or the ethernet card both of which I need. I had planned on getting another cheap 1150 board to replace this one, but the used ones are all stupid money and new there is only cheap trash boards left available.

Pretty much what I discovered during the week

I tried the onboard on this when my card was being stupid and it was able to do DVI and display port or HDMI and displayport at the same time fine, DVI and hdmi and display port did not work. I didnt try the waste of space VGA plug because I have nothing that will plug into it on hand since cleaning out the redundant cable pile. I expect the newer intel onboard will be the same at limiting you to 2 monitors.

For the Z gigabyte series it appears to be capable of triple. Downside is shared 512MB

1 x D-Sub port, supporting a maximum resolution of 1920x1200@60 Hz
1 x DVI-D port, supporting a maximum resolution of 1920x1200@60 Hz
* The DVI-D port does not support D-Sub connection by adapter.
1 x HDMI port, supporting a maximum resolution of 4096x2160@24 Hz
* Support for HDMI 1.4 version.
Support for up to 3 displays at the same time

richms

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#1552849 14-May-2016 22:37

Ive never bought a combo, always get the CPU and board seperatly since I usually want a pretty barebones board and a quick CPU, which they always seem to bundle a crap CPU on the basic boards and a needlessly flash board with the good CPUs

My board says the same thing about monitors but it would just not work at all for me. All 1080 screens, one native display port 144Hz (I also tried it on DVI), one native DVI on a HDMI to DVI and one native DVI direct to the monitor. Was a clear case of pick 2 and not 3. The third would show in windows display controls but choosing to extend to it just had everything blank out for a while and then come back with it still disabled.

I read something about intel finally killing off the DACs on the chipsets so I would expect the VGA to be something rare on new boards. Not that anyone should ever be using it on a digital monitor.

Richard rich.ms

pstar008

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Ultimate Geek

#1552855 14-May-2016 22:58

Thanks Richard and Oblivian for clarity the onboard support monitor count, I might need be careful about which motherboard I choose if I plan for a triple monitor setup. But not really a big deal, as can't see that I need a triple setup right now or in the near future and I sometimes even consider move to a larger 4K monitor.

Also thanks for Oblivian pointed out, now I do know that I probably need a Z170 board, and didn't see any Q170 from CL website, but if I decided that I want a K series CPU, I probably will choose a Z. But on the other hand, in case if there are not much difference between K and non-K, then I might be better consider buying the non K version, then might be consider a H170? But now, my heart is still goes with 6700K.

Don't think I need USB 3.1, but USB C on the other hand might be the future and I like the idea and also there are few Smart phones which I care out here using USB C already. And M.2 drive doesn't seems that expensive either, but give the budget, I probably would opt for a larger SSD rather than faster boot speed.

Had a play in CL website configurations with a few different combinations, it seems I can get exactly what I want for slightly over 2k, or more than what I want for about 2.6k, which seems good enough, but as I don't need to hurry, so I will leave the decision for a month later.

Looks like took the GPU out of the equation also took out most of the fun and challenging out of build a new PC :D

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pstar008

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Ultimate Geek

#1552857 14-May-2016 23:07

richms:

Ive never bought a combo, always get the CPU and board seperatly since I usually want a pretty barebones board and a quick CPU, which they always seem to bundle a crap CPU on the basic boards and a needlessly flash board with the good CPUs

My board says the same thing about monitors but it would just not work at all for me. All 1080 screens, one native display port 144Hz (I also tried it on DVI), one native DVI on a HDMI to DVI and one native DVI direct to the monitor. Was a clear case of pick 2 and not 3. The third would show in windows display controls but choosing to extend to it just had everything blank out for a while and then come back with it still disabled.

I read something about intel finally killing off the DACs on the chipsets so I would expect the VGA to be something rare on new boards. Not that anyone should ever be using it on a digital monitor.

No need for worry about VGA, its just I happened have a VGA cable connecting to my secondary 19" Dell LCD, it dose DVI just fine. And yes, it never looks as good beside an Dell U2410, so I just assume that its a bad monitor rather ever think about DAC or ADC :D

richms

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#1552859 14-May-2016 23:10

The onboard is perfectly fine for productivity work on the intels. Did all the windows 7 aero stuff perfectly, no corruption in after effects or premiere like older onboards had. Ive just consolodated gaming and productivity to the same computer since its possible to game fine while encoding a video with more than 2 cores.

Richard rich.ms

pstar008

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Ultimate Geek

#1552860 14-May-2016 23:20

Yes, I was worry about 24 Hz rate on a 4K display for an on-board, but second thought is: "how fast can I type, or scroll the web page/documents", then I might as well miss some fast motions, if I ever want watch movies on that monitor.

richms

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#1552861 14-May-2016 23:32

I cant even use a mouse on a 24Hz screen without it really bothering me. Scrolling is aweful to look at, like when they pan a camera in a movie and its like a flipbook. Everything just looks super bad. I find the 144Hz much more pleasent to use for everything compared to 60, scrolling is pretty damn smooth but browsers have a hard time not juddering. Word/excel is fine scrolling at high rates.

Richard rich.ms

pstar008

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Ultimate Geek

#1552864 14-May-2016 23:55

richms:

I cant even use a mouse on a 24Hz screen without it really bothering me. Scrolling is aweful to look at, like when they pan a camera in a movie and its like a flipbook. Everything just looks super bad. I find the 144Hz much more pleasent to use for everything compared to 60, scrolling is pretty damn smooth but browsers have a hard time not juddering. Word/excel is fine scrolling at high rates.

Good point, looks like mine is running at 60 Hz, I might be not notice the difference between 50 or 60 Hz, or it is something once been seen, will be hard not to notice it, but 24Hz probably wouldn't able to fly even for me. But well, then I guess I just got a graphic card, and probably any graphic card will do.

Jax

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Master Geek

#1552886 15-May-2016 08:13

I built a PC not long ago. I went with a smaller form factor - ITX

For your requirements, I don't see you needing a large case? the onboard intel grpahics will be fine for now, do what you suggest and buy mid-range GPU when required (kind wish I'd done this)

I have the H170 chipset + Non-K CPU, if you are not overclocking, this is perfectly fine.

You should be able to go under $2k

I like the M.2 SSDs too

My build for reference: http://pricespy.co.nz/list.php?l=185265&view=m

timmmay

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#1552894 15-May-2016 08:55

Run your VMs from SSDs - get one SSD for OS (120GB should be heaps) and one for data like VMs. Spinning disks for bulk storage, backups, images, etc. Graphics card performance is likely mostly irrelevant. Get plenty of RAM if you'll run multiple VMs, i7 and maybe 32GB RAM. If you get one large SSD you can partition - makes image backups like Macrium easier / faster / smaller.

pstar008

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Ultimate Geek

#1553032 15-May-2016 13:50

Jax:

I built a PC not long ago. I went with a smaller form factor - ITX

For your requirements, I don't see you needing a large case? the onboard intel grpahics will be fine for now, do what you suggest and buy mid-range GPU when required (kind wish I'd done this)

I have the H170 chipset + Non-K CPU, if you are not overclocking, this is perfectly fine.

You should be able to go under $2k

I like the M.2 SSDs too

My build for reference: http://pricespy.co.nz/list.php?l=185265&view=m

I probably would be fine with ITX, but find it much easier to working on larger case after had a full tower, that's when I used to O/C and keep adding HDDs with old ones. But I think ITX would be the future direction.

Non-K, yeah, still not sure that I want a K CPU and not planning to O/C, I might end up O/C if I got the hardware, MB/large case etc. But the main reason is that in my current build CPU doesn't seems faster enough quite often, and my current position is that it is probably not worth the hassle to O/C and has a hotter nosier system, but worth paying bit extra to get a faster CPU. The 6700K does have a higher running frequency than the 6700 one, still not sure how much the performance would be different if not O/C.

M.2 SSD, is it tricky to set up as boot/OS drive?

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