CGA advice RE PC Hardware failure

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toejam316

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Ultimate Geek
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Topic # 239402 16-Jul-2018 12:16

Hey guys,

super weird situation's come up, and I figured a sanity check from others who've dealt with similar stuff might be in order.

PB Tech is the NZ supplier for EVGA equipment, I got an EVGA GTX 1080 FE off Computer Lounge at launch (just over 2 years ago now), and then a few months later got the EVGA GTX 1070/1080 Hybrid Cooler Kit off PB Tech (not quite 2 years ago).

The impeller in the AIO cooler has failed, I've taken the card in to PB Tech and basically said "Fix it, it's broken, and you guys need to sort it", and they've come back saying they can only send the cooler off to the manufacturer for RMA (fine) and that they need to remove the card from the cooler (fine), and that I will need to pay them for this service (not fine) and they won't send it away until I confirm I will pay (not fine).

Am I being unreasonable with my theory that they're the NZ Manufacturer, so the GPU falls within their realm, and even if it didn't, it wouldn't be unreasonable to say that the costs incurred from the removal of the cooler are costs that would be on charged to them as part of the equipment failure, as these costs are being directly incurred due to the faulty equipment?

Also, if they continue to play silly buggers, would I be unreasonable to then reject the product(s) and demand a full refund for the invoice cost of the part(s), as well as incurred additional costs?

If so, would it also be reasonable to say that the card in it's current state sans hybrid cooler is unusuable as the OEM cooler will likely not be refitted by them and that there are no consumer instructions to refit the OEM cooler (unlike the Hybrid cooler which comes with explicit information on how to uninstall the OEM cooler and install the Hybrid cooler), and should be subject to return to the manufacturer for a full refund of the original cost also?

I've already sent them off an email basically saying "You've quoted me 1-3 weeks to repair this, both of these parts (GPU and Cooler) under NZ Law classify you as the Manufacturer, resolve it", to which they've responded with "We aren't the manufacturer, they won't take the GPU back only the cooler, please pay us or remove it yourself".

Fingers crossed none of this gets that far, and they just do the right thing, swallow the cost/try and recoup the costs from their overseas supplier (EVGA), and get on with fixing my graphics card, because the rickety old R9 280x I'm using is super dodgy, and they have refused to supply me an alternative card to use in lieu while my card is being repaired.

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Master Geek
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Reply # 2057026 16-Jul-2018 12:33

I would remove the cooler and send both back. I was in a similar situation where my custom PC (built by me, all parts from PBTech) refused to post. They charged me a flat fee for diagnosis and re-assembly. I think they could do better, but wasn't too surprised.

tripp

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Reply # 2057029 16-Jul-2018 12:36

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I would say it's your cost. The issue is with the cooler and not the 1080 card. PB tech is the reseller are not the "Manufacturer".

EVGA has said they will only accept the cooler back as RMA so someone needs to remove it from the card. Either you can remove it or pay someone to do it.

gsr

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Reply # 2057034 16-Jul-2018 12:42

tripp:

I would say it's your cost. The issue is with the cooler and not the 1080 card. PB tech is the reseller are not the "Manufacturer".

EVGA has said they will only accept the cooler back as RMA so someone needs to remove it from the card. Either you can remove it or pay someone to do it.

Sounds about right to me.

RunningMan

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Reply # 2057035 16-Jul-2018 12:42

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tripp:[snip] PB tech is the reseller are not the "Manufacturer".

Sorry, but that is not correct, assuming PBTech import or distribute the product in NZ.

manufacturer means a person that carries on the business of assembling, producing, or processing goods, and includes—

(c) where goods are manufactured outside New Zealand and the foreign manufacturer of the goods does not have an ordinary place of business in New Zealand, a person that imports or distributes those goods

Source

toejam316

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Reply # 2057036 16-Jul-2018 12:46

RunningMan:

tripp:[snip] PB tech is the reseller are not the "Manufacturer".

Sorry, but that is not correct, assuming PBTech import or distribute the product in NZ.

manufacturer means a person that carries on the business of assembling, producing, or processing goods, and includes—

(c) where goods are manufactured outside New Zealand and the foreign manufacturer of the goods does not have an ordinary place of business in New Zealand, a person that imports or distributes those goods

Source

Exactly my thing - they're classified as the manufacturer, and the parts they "manufactured" have failed, causing an issue with the overall device. They don't provide instructions on restoration of the OEM cooler, only the installation of the alternative cooler, which in my opinion puts it outside the realms of reasonable expectation for an end user to retrace and undo the installation. Their equipment has failed, and they need to remedy it. It's a mechanical failure of a part that should be build robustly enough to prevent this exact outcome, and thus the costs incurred resolving it should fall upon those who supplied the failed equipment.

I think it's reasonable that if they feel the removal of the cooler is something that should be a charged action, that I forward the costs along to the Manufacturer who's equipment caused the need for these charges.

surfisup1000

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Reply # 2057039 16-Jul-2018 12:51

toejam316:

Am I being unreasonable with my theory that they're the NZ Manufacturer, so the GPU falls within their realm, and even if it didn't, it wouldn't be unreasonable to say that the costs incurred from the removal of the cooler are costs that would be on charged to them as part of the equipment failure, as these costs are being directly incurred due to the faulty equipment?

Also, if they continue to play silly buggers, would I be unreasonable to then reject the product(s) and demand a full refund for the invoice cost of the part(s), as well as incurred additional costs?

You are possibly covered under the consequential loss section of the GGA. The fault directly causes some other costs to be incurred.

But, pbtech can be dicks when it comes to the CGA (from personal experience with a faulty harddrive). You'd need to be prepared to lodge a disputes claim.

Here is some text I pulled from consumer affairs...

Extra loss or damage
(consequential loss)
Consequential loss is a loss (normally one
that costs you money) that you suffer as a
result (consequence) of something going
wrong with the goods you bought or a
service received.
The Consumer Guarantees Act allows you to
claim compensation for consequential loss
from a retailer.

tripp

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Reply # 2057052 16-Jul-2018 13:16

RunningMan:

tripp:[snip] PB tech is the reseller are not the "Manufacturer".

Sorry, but that is not correct, assuming PBTech import or distribute the product in NZ.

manufacturer means a person that carries on the business of assembling, producing, or processing goods, and includes—

(c) where goods are manufactured outside New Zealand and the foreign manufacturer of the goods does not have an ordinary place of business in New Zealand, a person that imports or distributes those goods

Source

Ah my mistake.

Lias

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Reply # 2057091 16-Jul-2018 14:28

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surfisup1000:

But, pbtech can be dicks when it comes to the CGA (from personal experience with a faulty harddrive). You'd need to be prepared to lodge a disputes claim.

I'd say that "can be" is being very generous to them.. more like "will almost always be"

Information wants to be free. The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it.

1101

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Reply # 2057602 17-Jul-2018 10:20

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Lias:

I'd say that "can be" is being very generous to them.. more like "will almost always be"

And thats very well known .

Its about time people took personal responsibility for their purchasing decisions.
Buy from companies with poor reputations, well thats a choice we make, so live with the consequences.
An ever increasing demand for lower & lower prices, forcing profit margins so low that after sales service & warranty will suffer,..... how about we buy from companies that
sell at price that allows them to look after warranties & customers.
Buy from several different companies to build your PC, accept that warranties will be more of a headache .

As to CGA , PCtech arnt the only importer of that brand , plenty of companies parallel import.
If PB Tech didnt install it, why wouldnt they charge for the time to remove it ? If you have issue with that , spend some time & remove it yourself perhaps ?
Sometimes these sort of bun fights arnt worth the time & effort .
Yes you can kick up a fuss, drag this out for months, go to the disputes tribunal (you may not win), or just do what it takes to get this sorted quickly.

Yes, you are being unreasonable (just my opinion) .
You made certain purchasing decisions .....

toejam316

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Reply # 2057669 17-Jul-2018 12:21

@1101
I can confirm the gpu is not parallel inported and came from Computer Lounge's supplier, which is PB Tech, so I'm not sure why you're making out that it might not be.
The personal responsibility bit is rubbish - what about corporate responsibility to comply with the law? I've worked within the law, why should businesses get a free pass?
PB Tech should pay for the removal as it's a part supplied by them, distributed by them, and backed by them. If you buy a car radiator and install it, are you going to just suck it up and eat the costs/time to remove it and return it or are you gonna pass it on to the dealer who sold you a dodgy part?
By my quick maths, restoring the card to factory is going to take me two hours, and my billable rate is $115 an hour. I'm not spending $230 worth of time to resolve this problem because they don't want to do what is lawful, however PB Tech is welcome to cover my time doing so.
Your whole stance seems oddly anti-consumer to me, but it may be that you have a different interpretation of the CGA.

richms

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Reply # 2057680 17-Jul-2018 12:35

A car radiator is the sort of thing that would either be sold by a trade supplier under terms of trade for a cheap price to a mechanic, or at an absurdly high over the counter price at retail to cover things like this happening. Unfortunately with PC parts there are so many "retailers" selling at close to a trade price that this differentiation cannot happen. PB are one of the biggest offenders with their retail off the floor price often being within 2% of the price 3 trade price.

Richard rich.ms

toejam316

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Reply # 2057682 17-Jul-2018 12:39

richms:
A car radiator is the sort of thing that would either be sold by a trade supplier under terms of trade for a cheap price to a mechanic, or at an absurdly high over the counter price at retail to cover things like this happening. Unfortunately with PC parts there are so many "retailers" selling at close to a trade price that this differentiation cannot happen. PB are one of the biggest offenders with their retail off the floor price often being within 2% of the price 3 trade price.

That's a hole in their business model then for sure, and I wouldn't be persuing this nearly as hard had I purchased the item using one of the trade accounts I have access to.
Instead I specifically sought an official NZ Distributor to be covered by the CGA in case anything dodgy happened with the part in question.
So far PB have given me the usual "we're working to resolve this even though it's outside warranty" thing and have stopped asking for me to pay them, so I'm quietly hopeful. Time will tell though.

1101

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Reply # 2057753 17-Jul-2018 14:24

toejam316: @1101
Your whole stance seems oddly anti-consumer to me, but it may be that you have a different interpretation of the CGA.

mate, you asked for opinions, but seems you really just wanted confirmation , or just wanted to vent (thats OK) :-)
It sounds like you're in IT or associated with it(?) , so you'd know exactly how bad things are with warranties. You would also have known of PB's rep

IT retailers and many repair shops tend to have a total disregard for the CGA . Just the way it is. Ive even seen this where Ive worked in the past.
Im not anti consumer, I am a consumer , but I'm realistic , and things re the CGA need to be fair for both sides (which they arnt)

Looks like you got a win in the end anyway(so far) , thats all that matters .

vulcannz

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Reply # 2057755 17-Jul-2018 14:27

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If you purchased them as a single unit I think you'd be justified. But you didn't. If I build a PC and something goes wrong, I don't take the whole PC back - I remove the faulty component for RMA.

I don't think there is anything in the CGA that sets this expectation?

toejam316

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Reply # 2057775 17-Jul-2018 14:35

vulcannz:
If you purchased them as a single unit I think you'd be justified. But you didn't. If I build a PC and something goes wrong, I don't take the whole PC back - I remove the faulty component for RMA.

I don't think there is anything in the CGA that sets this expectation?

The bit about costs incurred by product failure. It seems logical to me to have PB carry out the removal instead of me invoicing them or getting a third party to do the same.
@1011
I'm sort of in IT, the ISP side, the computer stuff is more a hobby than a professional thing.
I am after opinions, I do find it interesting though that there's a few saying the removal of the cooler from gpu shouldn't be part of the consequential loss in the cga claim.
So had I paid PB $69 up front for the installation of the cooler, you guys feel I should then have consequential coverage for the whole device? It's interesting just to see what the general feel is on this stuff.

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