NAS vs PC for storage

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HcoNmeM

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#243915 8-Jan-2019 17:11

I'm looking at retiring the PC NAS, running raid 5 with 4 x 10tb disks, good graphics card and lots of ram, Linux installed and plex is installed to an independant SSD.

No issues at all with media, except for 4k lol..

So I'm either going to buy this.. https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/NASSYN09184/Synology-DiskStation-DS918-4-Bay-NAS-Server-Quad-C

or build a new PC NAS.. anyone got one of these NAS units or are there any other recommendations?

Really keen to get something that's going to handle transcoding and potentially approx 10-20 streams at once (current system does but not 4k)

Cheers

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102 posts

Master Geek

#2156588 8-Jan-2019 17:37

Can't imagine a NAS would be able to deliver that many streams let alone 4k

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MfYoJkiwSqCXg8cm5-Ac4oOLPRtCkgUxU0jdj3tmMPc/edit#gid=1274624273

davidcole

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#2156597 8-Jan-2019 17:55

ooooh, I've been thinking about the same....but was going to keep my existing pc hardware for my vms......and just use the nas as pure storage. So the pc, with a 1tb drive for virtual machines, cpu tasks, plex etc (and 32 gb ram), and backups, media etc on the nas......

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Handle9

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#2156604 8-Jan-2019 18:15

Torquenstein:
Can't imagine a NAS would be able to deliver that many streams let alone 4k

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MfYoJkiwSqCXg8cm5-Ac4oOLPRtCkgUxU0jdj3tmMPc/edit#gid=1274624273

I would have thought for that many streams you would be looking at server hardware or maybe a Threadripper just to get enough cores.

I’ve just built an Unraid system for a reasonably similar application (not the same number of streams but primary purpose is plex). It’s working well and is very lightweight and pretty straightforward to put together.

gbwelly

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#2156620 8-Jan-2019 18:41

Quadro P2000, Plex Pass and hardware transcoding.

Batman

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#2156622 8-Jan-2019 18:45

20 4k streams? Your LAN might be the bottleneck even if your CPU doesn't give up!

driller2000

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#2156705 8-Jan-2019 22:11

Handle9:
Torquenstein:

Can't imagine a NAS would be able to deliver that many streams let alone 4k

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MfYoJkiwSqCXg8cm5-Ac4oOLPRtCkgUxU0jdj3tmMPc/edit#gid=1274624273

I would have thought for that many streams you would be looking at server hardware or maybe a Threadripper just to get enough cores.

I’ve just built an Unraid system for a reasonably similar application (not the same number of streams but primary purpose is plex). It’s working well and is very lightweight and pretty straightforward to put together.

+1 for UnRAID.

Given you have that HW spare - you could re-purpose it as an unRAID box for bugger all cost and see if it meets your needs?

Also not sure why you would want to transcode at the NAS end?

What are you using for clients? Couldn't these just play the files directly @ the client end - using say Kodi as your GUI and player?

Edit: Should add I have an unRAID box which is in its 7th year of life now - has grown to 56 TB of usable space - using 11 drives of various sizes - and could upgrade to 88TB if I replaced all HDD's with 8TB drives. Haven't lost any data in this time. I stream media to multiple devices - incl Windows Desktop, Shield, MiBox, Tablets/Phones - generally using Kodi as the main media SW.

PS: Could only test 3 x 4k streams just now (Desktop/MiBox/Shield) over my Cat 5 network/gig switch (all consumer grade gear) and all played fine over Kodi/SPMC. 20 would be a stretch though! :)

firefuze

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#2156708 8-Jan-2019 22:52

I have the DS918+ that you are looking at. I can serve up several streams of 1080p content no issue at all while running a few other tasks in the background. I don’t have a 4K display so haven’t used it to serve any 4K media but I do have the HD HomeRun Connect running through it and noticed I get about 60-70% load when watching a live TV channel and weirdly 90-99% when streaming TV ‘Three’ for some reason..

So I do question how well it would perform real world with 4K content if you were needing transcoding

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michaelmurfy

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#2156713 8-Jan-2019 23:24

Ensure you've got Hardware Acceleration enabled in Plex. On my HP Microserver I've handled 7 1080p transcoding streams without the CPU even breaking a sweat and when I tried doing 4K it was the same story.

Your hardware is more than capable. Consider trying UnRaid and putting Plex in Docker and trying again. Advantage to UnRaid also is you can (easily) set up another VM to take full advantage of that graphics card.

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HcoNmeM

182 posts

Master Geek
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#2156757 9-Jan-2019 08:42

Handle9:
Torquenstein:

Can't imagine a NAS would be able to deliver that many streams let alone 4k

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MfYoJkiwSqCXg8cm5-Ac4oOLPRtCkgUxU0jdj3tmMPc/edit#gid=1274624273

I would have thought for that many streams you would be looking at server hardware or maybe a Threadripper just to get enough cores.

I’ve just built an Unraid system for a reasonably similar application (not the same number of streams but primary purpose is plex). It’s working well and is very lightweight and pretty straightforward to put together.

Current NAS (ok it's a PC) can serve 20 (non 4k) at one time.. all reporting no buffering or resolution issues..

Didn't believe it myself at first but works well..

I'm currently using Sabayon Linux to run the box which is stable and works well.. first used it for raspberry pi and then xbmc.. but now (after a clean fresh rebuild a year ago when I got the 10Tb drives) I'm looking at options.. while I have some cash to put towards it.. it's a work tool..

firefuze: I have the DS918+ that you are looking at. I can serve up several streams of 1080p content no issue at all while running a few other tasks in the background. I don’t have a 4K display so haven’t used it to serve any 4K media but I do have the HD HomeRun Connect running through it and noticed I get about 60-70% load when watching a live TV channel and weirdly 90-99% when streaming TV ‘Three’ for some reason..

So I do question how well it would perform real world with 4K content if you were needing transcoding

Ok.. thanks for that..

I have noticed that TV streams are quite big.. the recordings we tested were 17Gb for a recorded movie..

A side note.. I love how Plex removes the ads from those recordings..

Batman: 20 4k streams? Your LAN might be the bottleneck even if your CPU doesn't give up!

Soz.. didn't mean 20 4k streams.. only just got a 4k TV so mine's the first to trail 4k on it..

20 with transcoding across the net to end units and around 5 at home locally..

End units are in Hamilton.. Wellington.. Christchurch.. Oz.. and around Auckland..

michaelmurfy:

Ensure you've got Hardware Acceleration enabled in Plex. On my HP Microserver I've handled 7 1080p transcoding streams without the CPU even breaking a sweat and when I tried doing 4K it was the same story.

Your hardware is more than capable. Consider trying UnRaid and putting Plex in Docker and trying again. Advantage to UnRaid also is you can (easily) set up another VM to take full advantage of that graphics card.

Yup.. that's enabled.. I bought a lifetime when they were real cheap around 4 years ago.. :D

----------

Just to add to my first post..

NAS sits on a gigabit lan connected to a gigabit fiber..

I'm running my own business now.. and looking at what's easier with the least maintenance..

Just don't have enough daylight to work and look after my current system.. also.. I want to drop the 1000w PSU off the power bill.. lol..

rb99

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#2156764 9-Jan-2019 09:01

Sorry, only skimmed through really, but I guess you've checked there aren't any ways to reduce transcoding in general - dunno, maybe subs force transcoding, or fancy audio forces transcoding, so maybe see if any family / clients could pick streams that don't need that kind of stuff. Maybe you could keep different versions of movies that would direct play. Just a thought.

Not as much fun as buying new stuff though...

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timmmay

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#2156769 9-Jan-2019 09:14

Curious - are you running a small scale TV station or something?!

HcoNmeM

182 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user

#2156774 9-Jan-2019 09:22

timmmay:

Curious - are you running a small scale TV station or something?!

HAHA.. a porn channel.. lol..

Na.. my NAS has some of my client media on it.. and they use it for storage and streaming using plex for a whole range of things..

Also off site storage.. hence the gig fiber..

JimmyH

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#2156788 9-Jan-2019 09:37

Torquenstein:

Can't imagine a NAS would be able to deliver that many streams let alone 4k

Some NASes can, but the one he links to is only a Celeron. It might deliver a couple of 4K streams, but I doubt it would cope with transcoding even a single one.

If it's 4K via Plex that the OP is after, then it's probably worth starting with decent clients that can play 4K natively - something like an nVidia shield. As well as making the viewing experience better, spending on decent clients will dramatically reduce the transcoding burden on the NAS, and let you save money on that side of the equation.

Also, the NAS model the OP links to is only a four-bay unit. By the time you lose one parity drive to RAID then that doesn't leave a while lot of space (even with 10TB drives, only 30TB) for media storage, if you are storing 4K media at decent quality. for uncompressed rips you can be looking at around 50GB or more per movie. Personally, I would look at a 6-8 bay model, giving some unused bays for future growth. You always need more space than you think you will.

I have an elderly Atom powered 8-bay unit, that has done me fine for nearly 6 years. If I was replacing it I would look at something like this. It costs a bit more, but has an adequate CPU and memory, a good number drive bays for future expansion, and the ability to put an SSD or two in for the Plex metadata and database, to speed up responsiveness etc. It's likely cheaper in the long run than an under-sized and under-powered unit, that was painfully slow to use, and that I would again be looking to junk and replace in as short as 1-2 years.

HcoNmeM

182 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user

#2156816 9-Jan-2019 10:05

JimmyH:

Torquenstein:

Can't imagine a NAS would be able to deliver that many streams let alone 4k

Some NASes can, but the one he links to is only a Celeron. It might deliver a couple of 4K streams, but I doubt it would cope with transcoding even a single one.

If it's 4K via Plex that the OP is after, then it's probably worth starting with decent clients that can play 4K natively - something like an nVidia shield. As well as making the viewing experience better, spending on decent clients will dramatically reduce the transcoding burden on the NAS, and let you save money on that side of the equation.

Also, the NAS model the OP links to is only a four-bay unit. By the time you lose one parity drive to RAID then that doesn't leave a while lot of space (even with 10TB drives, only 30TB) for media storage, if you are storing 4K media at decent quality. for uncompressed rips you can be looking at around 50GB or more per movie. Personally, I would look at a 6-8 bay model, giving some unused bays for future growth. You always need more space than you think you will.

I have an elderly Atom powered 8-bay unit, that has done me fine for nearly 6 years. If I was replacing it I would look at something like this. It costs a bit more, but has an adequate CPU and memory, a good number drive bays for future expansion, and the ability to put an SSD or two in for the Plex metadata and database, to speed up responsiveness etc. It's likely cheaper in the long run than an under-sized and under-powered unit, that was painfully slow to use, and that I would again be looking to junk and replace in as short as 1-2 years.

Thanks for that..

That NAS is nice.. however the cost is too high for my budgeted upgrade..

Also.. 30Tb seems to be good for now.. however I see you thinking there.. and yeah expandability is definitely something I need to consider also..

4k is something that long term I'll probably move to supporting within the next couple years.. have a couple client vids on it to use for 4k testing..

Currently it's working with their (much smaller in size) test clips both locally and remotely.. but I tried a 4k movie and it just didn't work too well..

Moving forward they're going to go 4k for most of their media.. need to have systems in place before they go forward with this..

I've thought about the shield as a player.. but locally it'd be a pain in the ass to teach the non tech savy wife and the kids would fark it quick.. lol..

My clients use TV's with the app installed to view the media.. and in some instances they use chromecast.. my nephew uses a ps4 to connect also..

Never had an issue.. until 4k came around.. and the only reason I'm looking into it is because my clients have indicated they'll be moving to it in a few years..

Plex currently sits on a Samsung 860 EVO MZ-76E500BW 500GB.. so it's really fast to browse and load media..

Linux is also installed on another Samsung 860 EVO MZ-76E500BW 500GB disk too..

I did read in some plex forums that a really good graphics card takes a significant load off the CPU..

Just not sure what to do.. my budget is $1000 and I already have the disks..

boland

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#2157759 10-Jan-2019 21:02

Interested in this topic as well :) I've got a ~7yo QNAP NAS which is super slow. I was looking at this same NAS, but I'm so surprised it's $900 for sub-par specs. It's just a very small PC.

For about half the price you can buy a similar PC, and with FreeNAS you're good to go. Or am I thinking too easy? E.g. for ~$500 you have a way better specced PC:

https://nz.pcpartpicker.com/user/bolandunited/saved/KM6tgs

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