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fe31nz

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#302197 6-Nov-2022 23:18
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My Windows 10 system is now just under 10 years old, and with Win 10 giving me the usual problems that Windows always does when it has been used for too long, I am going to have to do a reinstall.  So I would prefer to install Win 11, rather than go with Win 10 again.  But that means I need a new motherboard.  So I thought, if I get one of the new PCIe 5.0 motherboards (either Intel or AMD), then I should be able to get something that will last me for another 10 years.  But when I looked at what is actually available, there seems to be a basic usability problem with all the PCIe 5.0 offerings.  There are very high bandwidths available on the PCIe slots, but there are not enough of them.  It seems that you can not get more than 4 PCIe slots, and most have only 3 or sometimes 2.  If you could split the lanes out of one of the x16 slots and use them in smaller slots, you would have enough slots to work with - at PCIe 5.0 speed, a single lane has huge bandwidth, enough for almost any peripheral device except a fast video card.  And even the video cards probably need no more than 4 lanes at the moment, so putting them in a x16 slot just wastes 12 lanes.

 

So it seems to me that the usability of the PCIe 5.0 motherboards is actually significantly worse than the PCIe 4.0 ones.  You really need a third party lane splitter device that plugs into a x16 slot and splits out those lanes to x1 and x4 slots in an external card cage.  Such things may well exist soon, but I have not found one yet.  Some motherboards do say that they support some lane splitting, but it is not well documented as to how it works.  There is hope that it may become normal at some point to do this.  There are some options for this sort of thing for running mining rigs, but not quite what I would want, and it seems pretty bad to have to buy an extra device to plug your PCIe cards into outside the PC when you used to be able to put them all inside.  And on top of that, getting a PCIe 5.0 motherboard that has 8 SATA ports is pretty rare - most have only 6 and sometimes 2 of those do not work if you have the wrong M.2 socket in use or the wrong PCIe slot in use.

 

My current motherboard is an Asus Sabertooth 990FX R2.0, and it has 5 PCIe slots and one PCI slot.  In those slots, I have a Nvidia GT1030 card, a card for a second 1 Gbit/s Ethernet port, a card with my NVMe M.2 SSD on it, an ancient PCIe dual tuner card (analogue and DVB-T), and a SAS card giving me up to 8 extra SATA ports (3 in use, I think).  The motherboard has 6 SATA ports on the SB950 chipset and another 2 SATA ports on a secondary ASMedia controller chip (BIOS switchable between eSATA and internal SATA ports).  All the motherboard SATA ports are in use (7 hard drives and 2 optical drives), hence the need for the extra SAS card.  The case also has a plug in hot swap SATA port, so that is a 10th SATA port in use.  If I upgrade to a PCIe 5.0 motherboard, I should not need the Nvidia card (the AMD and Intel CPUs can have onboard GPU which would be fine for my use of Windows).  And I would not need a card for the NVMe SSD either, as there are lots on M.2 slots on the latest motherboards.  And you can get motherboards with two Ethernet ports (one 1 Gbit/s and one 2.5 or even 10 Gbits/s).  So initially, I would only need to use 2 PCIe slots, one for the tuner card (PCIe x1) and one for the SAS card (PCIe x4? x8?).  But what about the future?  Over a hoped for 10 year lifespan, I am definitely going to want to have 10 Gbit/s Ethernet, not just 2.5 Gbit, and that is only available on one or two of the most expensive PCIe 5.0 motherboards.  Or maybe I will want Infiniband (40 Gbit/s).  So I will want a slot for that.  And who knows what will come along needing a slot - NVMe was not available when I bought the 990FX motherboard, and in 10 years there may be something even faster that will need all of a PCIe 5.0 x16 slot!

 

So I can not find any good options for a PCIe 5.0 motherboard to replace the existing system.  And anything that approaches good costs heaps - I am guessing that it will take around $4500 to get a system with 64 Gbytes of RAM and 4 PCIe slots and 10 Gbit/s Ethernet.  But if I go with PCIe 4.0 I can get everything I want (except PCIe 5.0 and USB 4.0) for just $2262.47 and add a 10 Gbit/s Ethernet card when I need it:

 

https://www.computerlounge.co.nz/shop/components/motherboards/amd/asus-rog-strix-x570-e-gaming-wifi-ii-motherboard

 

https://www.computerlounge.co.nz/shop/components/memory/desktop/gskill-trident-z-neo-rgb-64gb-4x16gb-ddr4-3600-cl16

 

https://www.computerlounge.co.nz/shop/components/processors/amd/amd-ryzen-9-5900x-processor

 

https://www.ascent.co.nz/productspecification.aspx?itemID=667799

 

I already have an Asus Rog Strix X570-E Gaming motherboard in my Ubuntu box and it is extremely good.  It has lots of everything, and works very well.  So now I have to decide whether I go with that, or wait and see if I can find a PCI 5.0 system that is good enough, but at a much higher price.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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  #2992713 7-Nov-2022 07:27
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"So it seems to me that the usability of the PCIe 5.0 motherboards is actually significantly worse than the PCIe 4.0 ones."

 

how do you get that conclusion? its exactly the same as it is on PCIe 4.0 boards. just more expensive

 

your use case it outside what manufactures are marketing their products for these days.




rb99
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  #2992716 7-Nov-2022 07:51
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Well I agree. I use an ASRock X-570 Steel Legend with 5 slots, all occupied and and it came with 8 SATA ports, all in use. When I was looking for a mobo I specifically looked on Pricespy for the ones with the most slots / SATAs and I'll do the same the next time, whenever that might be, though looks like I'll be disappointed (I already am when I browse around).





“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

 

rb99


rb99
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  #2992717 7-Nov-2022 07:53
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And cases are getting worse as well.





“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

 

rb99




  #2992727 7-Nov-2022 08:25
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i was like you with sata ports but ive gone to a NAS now so downsizing the number internally in the PC.

 

 


surfisup1000
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  #2992784 7-Nov-2022 09:02
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Sounds like you have a lot of hard drives and use your computer as a file server/htpc?

 

Why not turn your old PC into a NAS , and buy PCIe 4.0 with just the ports/slots you need?

 

Today's typical PC is a small case/mobo with NVME and a single HDD, with a small drive cage underneath the mobo. Mobo manufacturers removed extra connectors to cut costs. 

 

Those who want storage servers, can buy/build a NAS. 

 

Those who want HTPC, can buy an apple TV. 

 

If you want all-in-one, you have to pay a lot because you are not the typical customer. 

 

You should try win 11 out first... I reverted to windows 10 after a few months. Windows 11 makes basic tasks harder. 


richms
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  #2992842 7-Nov-2022 09:32
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For multiple slots you need to look at server stuff.

 

Most normal users now have a single PCIe card - the graphics card. LAN, audio, wifi USB is all onboard or thru a m.2 slot for the wifi. Storage is all nvme drives on the board so even sata is disused in most machines. 2-3 NVMe slots is all thats needed. I expect that sata ports will go away soon.

 

Cases tend to have the option to relocate the GPU vertically to take mechanical load off the motherboard and also provide better cooling as the bottom output isnt blocked by the motherboard.





Richard rich.ms

rb99
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  #2992846 7-Nov-2022 09:51
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Don't know about the OP, but I use my PC mainly for Emby, which is (a better) alternative to Plex. So I've got 8 HDDs, 2 SSDs, one NVMe and two bluray drives in a Fractal case, so I need those SATAs and extra drive controllers and the live TV card and can't remember what else.





“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

 

rb99


 
 
 

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richms
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  #2992863 7-Nov-2022 09:57
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rb99:

 

Don't know about the OP, but I use my PC mainly for Emby, which is (a better) alternative to Plex. So I've got 8 HDDs, 2 SSDs, one NVMe and two bluray drives in a Fractal case, so I need those SATAs and extra drive controllers and the live TV card and can't remember what else.

 

 

Then you have a server, not a PC and should be looking at the appropriate hardware for that. There are plenty of boards that have the features requested, but they are $700 and up, the market for the $200 boards is desktop PC usage which is not needing the slots etc.





Richard rich.ms

rb99
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  #2992869 7-Nov-2022 10:13
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I guess its a server, but I could do that with a mobo that cost a not insignificant $420. If I can find the same for about the same in a few years then great, but $700...





“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

 

rb99


rb99
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  #2992874 7-Nov-2022 10:20
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This I guess would be my mobo direct replacement -

 

https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/MBDASR12671/ASRock-X670E-Steel-Legend-ATX-motherboard-For-AMD?qr=pspy&ref=pricespy

 

Two slots less, costs 50% more, never mind the more expensive processors, ram, anything that might actually use pci-e 5...





“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

 

rb99


richms
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  #2992888 7-Nov-2022 10:57
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It has 4 M.2 slots that you can use for additional storage as well. There are multiport sata cards that will go in them but they are all the cheap chipset ones. You can also get things to take the M.2 up to a backplane but I don't think that those take sata drives, just 2.5" NVMe ones.

 

Perhaps wait till a threadripper refresh comes out if you really want PCIe gen 5 support?





Richard rich.ms

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  #2992943 7-Nov-2022 12:09
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4 m.2s might be nice, but not much good if you want to add, say 14TB HDDs. For adding SATA I guess those LSI SAS cards are best.

 

Don't know about the OP, but not sure about PCI 5, its all just adding and adding to the cost. Whatever happened to Moore's law (or its equivalent - performance keeps going up but price stays the same) ?





“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

 

rb99


richms
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  #2993002 7-Nov-2022 12:46
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They use those junk controllers and in the case of ones that have more than 4 ports, a multiplier so useless for raid or storage space use, but this is a solution. 

 

There are only so many PCIe lanes available on the chipset and CPU, and the market wants a fully connected GPU slot to the CPU, and then m.2 slots for storage so that is what they put on the boards.





Richard rich.ms

rb99
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  #2993008 7-Nov-2022 12:55
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So I believe, hence something like -

 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/133061563334

 

 





“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

 

rb99


  #2993237 7-Nov-2022 18:18
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you need either a dedicated NAS or a DIY one


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