Upgrade time, but a few questions first!

Forums › Desktop computing › Upgrade time, but a few questions first!

DravidDavid

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#90468 22-Sep-2011 02:57

Its that time of the year again! AMD are releasing their new FX-8150 8 core Bulldozer and I need to replace my 5 year old AMD Athlon 64 4800+

I've built a lot of computers but have never paid attention to the RAM I've put in them. I was never really in to or understood the whole clock speed vs. the amount of memory vs the amount of bandwidth across several chips. So I need clarification before I go and embarrass myself somewhere along the line.

Is one 8GB stick at 1833MHz better than two 4GB sticks at 1833MHz Or would the two 4GB sticks perform better since the information can be split between two channels? I want to install 16GB of memory. So would 4 sticks of 4GB DDR3 memory to make 16GB out perform two 8GB DDR3 sticks at the same frequency?

I know my question sounds the same, but does utilizing the other 2 channels increase performance or hinder it when making it work harder to access all 4?

Is 8GB at 1600MHz better than 4GB at 1833MHz because it has more memory or would 4GB at the faster clock make my system run much faster? Or would the performance suffer because there is not as much memory?

AMD motherboards/chips do not support tripple channel memory. But I've heard that its not really worth anything. Is that true?

I am using 3D applications for rendering as well as sound design applications, so i need a lot of RAM. I'm not just chucking it in there because I can.

Thanks for your answers in advance! :D

David

Ragnor

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#524527 22-Sep-2011 11:36

If the motherboard has dual channel technology it is definately better to have 2x 4GB than 1x 8GB.

I don't think 2x 4GB vs 4x 2GB will provide a noticeable difference but it will depend on the motherboard, as you're looking at un-released tech it's too soon to tell.

Ram is cheap atm you'll probably want to look at 2x8GB for 16GB. Ram clock speed isn't currently as big of a thing as it used to be, generally as long as the ram clock matches the cpu bus speed then ram won't be the bottleneck.

Anandtech, TomsHardware and all the other hardware review sites will cover the new boards and cpus to death when they are released.

Anandtech has a good benchmark viewer
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/CPU/33

The left box will let you choose a category and see the results for specific program for lots of cpu's

The right box will let you compare two cpu's across a set of programs

Here's a comparison of i7 2600k vs Phenom II X6 1090T (looks very sad for AMD)
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/287?vs=146

DravidDavid

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#524708 22-Sep-2011 17:53

I've never used this website before. It is my new favorite!

AMD's Phenom II chips suck compared to the i7 series chips. But I am hoping their new 8 core CPU will outperform Intel again like the Athlon chips did the Pentium 4's. Keyword being "hoping".

I'll go for the two 8GB G.SKILL/Corsair chips at 1866Mhz over the four 4GB chips. That why I have room for more RAM in the future I guess :)

Thanks for the help Ragnor! :)

timmmay

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#524720 22-Sep-2011 18:09

I had a bit of a read today, RAM speed makes little difference for real world applications. 1333MHz is only 5% slower than 2333MHz (I forget the exact speeds). That's probably beacuse of caching, including read ahead caching.

michaelt

425 posts

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#524723 22-Sep-2011 18:20

Where did you find 8GB DDR3 DIMM's? I don't think they're available yet (excluding Registered RAM for servers). If you want 16GB I think 4*4GB will be your only option.

I saw some benchmarks that indicated DDR3-2133 provides almost no advantage over DDR3-1600, which provides a small advantage over DDR3-1333. That was for Intel Sandy Bridge though, Bulldozer may be different.

I think some of the new Sandy Bridge-E motherboards being released soon support quad-channel RAM, with up to 8 banks. That may be an option for you if you really need a lot of RAM.

timmmay

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#524735 22-Sep-2011 19:14

I'm getting a new sandy bridge machine soon Michael, any idea about when the new motherboards will be released, or if there will be much of an advantage of using them? I'm not in a hurry to get a machine, so I can wait if it's a decent gain.

I'm not going to bother with a SB-E CPU, too much $ for too little gain.

michaelt

425 posts

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#524740 22-Sep-2011 19:22

SB-E uses a different socket, so I don't think you'll be able to use a normal CPU in a SB-E motherboard. I could be wrong though.

Personally, I've never seen much point in spending big on a motherboard unless it has features you're going to use.

Ragnor

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#524766 22-Sep-2011 20:27

michaelt: Where did you find 8GB DDR3 DIMM's? I don't think they're available yet (excluding Registered RAM for servers). If you want 16GB I think 4*4GB will be your only option.

I saw some benchmarks that indicated DDR3-2133 provides almost no advantage over DDR3-1600, which provides a small advantage over DDR3-1333. That was for Intel Sandy Bridge though, Bulldozer may be different.

I think some of the new Sandy Bridge-E motherboards being released soon support quad-channel RAM, with up to 8 banks. That may be an option for you if you really need a lot of RAM.

Good point about the 8GB sticks, you're right I was thinking of servers.

So yeah 4x 4GB DDR3 1600 for 16GB, Kingston Hyper X 16GB is ~$250 retail atm.

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timmmay

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#524795 22-Sep-2011 22:00

RAM has gotten crazy cheap. I was looking at motherboards and RAM today, the compatibility list doesn't list much of what I find online in NZ. Do you need to stick with that list, or will any DDR3-1600 RAM work in any motherboard?

DravidDavid

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#524801 22-Sep-2011 22:12

I thought 8GB DIMM's were available? Damn. No matter though :)

As far as the brands go, which are more reliable/better? Kingston, Corsair, G.SKILL, Crucial?
I have no idea, but I'm leaning towards G.SKILL.

Ragnor

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#525019 23-Sep-2011 13:57

DravidDavid: I thought 8GB DIMM's were available? Damn. No matter though :)

As far as the brands go, which are more reliable/better? Kingston, Corsair, G.SKILL, Crucial?
I have no idea, but I'm leaning towards G.SKILL.

Hardly any difference.

I'd probably get this right now:

KINGSTON HYPERX 16GB (4X4GB) DDR3-1600 KIT CL9 for $249 inc gst and free shipping
http://www.computerlounge.co.nz/components/componentview.asp?partid=14265

DravidDavid

1907 posts

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#525213 24-Sep-2011 00:25

Cool, I'll shop around. I might be able to haggle with the boys at Playtech :)

A bit off topic. But I was wondering if anyone knew of a really good cooler (air) for an AM3+ socket that doesn't look like a horizontal sky-scraper and carry the potential to snap my motherboard in half?

I don't want to over-clock. But I don't want to trust a stock cooler for when I'm running my new CPU for a week or three at 100% load. :)

D1023319

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#525845 26-Sep-2011 15:28

timmmay: I'm getting a new sandy bridge machine soon Michael, any idea about when the new motherboards will be released, or if there will be much of an advantage of using them? I'm not in a hurry to get a machine, so I can wait if it's a decent gain.

I'm not going to bother with a SB-E CPU, too much $ for too little gain.

FYI - I purchased a Z68 Asus mobo with 2500k and window 7 and office 2010.
I dont do graphics intensive apps so I am using the onboard graphics.
am happy with setup as gadgets report 2% cpu and 12% ram when idle and temps average about 29d.
Its setup in my old case with a single 120mm fan on low speed.

I highly recommend for speed and graphics on asus 21 lcd via dvi,
Its also really silent but I am thinking of disabling the case fan to make it dead silent.

on down side - i could not get intel smart response tech with ssd cache to run reliably so I uninstalled it.
to be honest am not too worried as on reflection the 64gb SSD is big enough for all apps and it if forcing my family to save to different drive ( ready for nas as next step).

Could I have built a PC for less - off course but I only aim to upgrade every 5 years or so so I like my bits to last as long as possible. In future I may add a graphics card to remove load of CPU is needed but I doubt it somehow

timmmay

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#525869 26-Sep-2011 15:54

I think i'm going with the P67 board, since I do want dedicated graphics - I do a lot of work that does use the card, and having dedicated vRam will help.

Poll

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#525876 26-Sep-2011 16:01

DravidDavid:
A bit off topic. But I was wondering if anyone knew of a really good cooler (air) for an AM3+ socket that doesn't look like a horizontal sky-scraper and carry the potential to snap my motherboard in half?

I don't want to over-clock. But I don't want to trust a stock cooler for when I'm running my new CPU for a week or three at 100% load. :)

We just replaced a stock heatsink with a coolermaster vortex plus, reasonably good price, not overly tall and seems to be doing the job, we were replacing a noisy stock fan rather than overclocking, it's being used on a 955 black edition quad core.

I can't say what it'll be like for running at 100% load for days on end as it doesn't get intensive use here, but it is nice and quiet. Combined with a new 12cm fan on the back of the case a noisy hot pc has become quiet and cool.

DravidDavid

1907 posts

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#525897 26-Sep-2011 16:54

Poll:
DravidDavid:
A bit off topic. But I was wondering if anyone knew of a really good cooler (air) for an AM3+ socket that doesn't look like a horizontal sky-scraper and carry the potential to snap my motherboard in half?

I don't want to over-clock. But I don't want to trust a stock cooler for when I'm running my new CPU for a week or three at 100% load. :)

We just replaced a stock heatsink with a coolermaster vortex plus, reasonably good price, not overly tall and seems to be doing the job, we were replacing a noisy stock fan rather than overclocking, it's being used on a 955 black edition quad core.

I can't say what it'll be like for running at 100% load for days on end as it doesn't get intensive use here, but it is nice and quiet. Combined with a new 12cm fan on the back of the case a noisy hot pc has become quiet and cool.

Sweet. I'll look in to that one. Going by Google Images, it dosn't look too big. I was looking at ZALMAN coolers earlier. They look like they would keep the system pretty cool, and they don't look like they would snap a motherboard in half.

http://img.tomshardware.com/us/2007/10/29/hitting_4ghz_with_air_cooling/intel_penryn_45_nm_zalman_cooler.jpg