The router guide - what to look for and what is best.

Forums › LAN (ethernet/Wifi/routers/Bluetooth) › The router guide - what to look for and what is best.

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50 posts

Geek

#2863856 9-Feb-2022 10:53

Tinkerisk:

Nope, not with everything turned on on a single Celeron CPU (I assumed someone will point to DPI, etc.) but you should compare to what is handled here so far. It‘s hard to emulate all the offloading stuff with software only and to compare to real enterprise equipment.

Thanks for the confirmation, yes I realise there is only a certain amount can be done via software in CPU, and that's why I want to make sure I make the right decision about what CPU to obtain!

Did a bit more reading last night on the Sophos XG firewall (free, home variant) and it seems that the same principles apply as when I last looked: for performance, you are better off with Intel E5 CPU than the desktop oriented i3/i5/i7 series. Unfortunately such CPUs in small package mini or micro hardware chassis (with lower TDP) are way less common and therefore more $$$. Atom & Celeron "need not apply".

The IDS/IPS will always break the bank in terms of computing power. Maybe you should think about another security strategy i.e. letting a ‚screaming server data center’ proxy handle the safety stuff for you and only getting the sorted out safe traffic into the house … ;-)

It‘s like in aviation - with enough horsepower any piano is capable to fly. But I assume you already knew that before you asked. My goal is: quiet, power saving, safe AND efficient.

Nice analogy thanks - I love the mental imagery of "sufficient" rockets strapped to a Steinway grand piano... 🤣

Primary use-case is actually to protect a bunch of Android & iOS devices, along with isolate "Internet of Things" devices that I can't trust as far as I can throw them (smart TV, gaming consoles, UDPs, semi-smart cleaning appliances etc). This is all easiest done by the router/gateway appliance. Yes, I'm aware certain things are best done away from home, as you say, and that everything is a compromise. I'm still reading and trying to find what will be the best compromise for my use-case. Appreciate the replies and input! Cheers, tU

SpartanVXL

1317 posts

Uber Geek

#2863953 9-Feb-2022 12:26

shk292:
On the subject of Mikrotik, has anyone here used the MikroTik RBD52G-5HacD2HnD-TC hAP as a UFB router and access point? Having been a supporter of the Deco M5 mesh system connected directly to the ONT, I've recently re-introduced the ISP-supplied NF18ACV into my system due to throughput limits and some annoying glitches with the Deco kit (which is now being used just for mesh WiFi). However the NF18ACV has the annoying habit of needing a reboot every few days, so I'd like to replace with something more solid. I also like the idea of something that is easier to tinker with and customise. The Mikrotik seems good value and well reviewed: https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/NETMKT1264/MikroTik-RBD52G-5HacD2HnD-TC-hAP-ac2-Wireless-Acce

Yes I’ve just put in the one I bought to play around with into a bigpipe fibre connection.

Quite easy to setup, has a default config which is good to go for home LAN environment. Might need to change the ether1 interface depending on your provider.

Firewall rules and fasttrack is configured out of the box so gigabit speeds should work correctly.

There are some services you should disable if they aren’t already like telnet or neighbour discovery which you won’t need at home.

Edit: or better yet follow Mr Murfy’s guide on mikrotik: https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=66&topicid=206084

Tinkerisk

4232 posts

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#2864310 9-Feb-2022 19:21

theUtmost:

Primary use-case is actually to protect a bunch of Android & iOS devices, along with isolate "Internet of Things" devices that I can't trust as far as I can throw them (smart TV, gaming consoles, UDPs, semi-smart cleaning appliances etc). This is all easiest done by the router/gateway appliance. Yes, I'm aware certain things are best done away from home, as you say, and that everything is a compromise. I'm still reading and trying to find what will be the best compromise for my use-case. Appreciate the replies and input!

For that use case alone a Celeron is indeed sufficient - it‘s only things like Suricata full in duty which will ask for power. I have this tested real life on OPNsense and could reach 849Mb/s on 1Gb/s line speed WITH WireGuard VPN engaged. Not too bad for a 4 core CPU which are all used by WireGuard.

- NET: FTTH, OPNsense, 10G backbone, GWN APs, ipPBX
- SRV: 12 RU HA server cluster, 0.1 PB storage on premise
- IoT: thread, zigbee, tasmota, BidCoS, LoRa, WX suite, IR
- 3D: two 3D printers, 3D scanner, CNC router, laser cutter

shk292

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#2864349 9-Feb-2022 20:41

SpartanVXL:

Yes I’ve just put in the one I bought to play around with into a bigpipe fibre connection.

Quite easy to setup, has a default config which is good to go for home LAN environment. Might need to change the ether1 interface depending on your provider.

Firewall rules and fasttrack is configured out of the box so gigabit speeds should work correctly.

There are some services you should disable if they aren’t already like telnet or neighbour discovery which you won’t need at home.

Edit: or better yet follow Mr Murfy’s guide on mikrotik: https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=66&topicid=206084

Thanks, that's really helpful. The specs look so good for the price I was wondering if they had a problem so useful to learn they're all good.

4possm

76 posts

Master Geek

#2890259 22-Mar-2022 17:48

I've fried my brain trying to find a decent answer to this question, so hoping some more network knowledgeable people can answer.

I've just upgraded both my NAS and PC to both having 10G/2.5G networking so I'm looking for an option to run these on my home network at best speed possible to handle my 4k & 8K footage. Currently running Fiber through Spark's smart modem.
Running pretty much everything else off Wifi so don't necessarily need a bunch more LAN ports but that could come in handy.

Jase2985

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#2890289 22-Mar-2022 19:14

4possm:

I've fried my brain trying to find a decent answer to this question, so hoping some more network knowledgeable people can answer.

I've just upgraded both my NAS and PC to both having 10G/2.5G networking so I'm looking for an option to run these on my home network at best speed possible to handle my 4k & 8K footage. Currently running Fiber through Spark's smart modem.
Running pretty much everything else off Wifi so don't necessarily need a bunch more LAN ports but that could come in handy.

so your wanting more than Gigabit fiber?

If so you need to use the Chorus provided ONT which one 10G network port on it than you can run your network how you like

jnimmo

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#2890323 22-Mar-2022 20:43

4possm:
I've fried my brain trying to find a decent answer to this question, so hoping some more network knowledgeable people can answer.

I've just upgraded both my NAS and PC to both having 10G/2.5G networking so I'm looking for an option to run these on my home network at best speed possible to handle my 4k & 8K footage. Currently running Fiber through Spark's smart modem.
Running pretty much everything else off Wifi so don't necessarily need a bunch more LAN ports but that could come in handy.

Either run a direct 10G connection between the NAS and the PC, then use a second NIC for internet/access to the rest of the network, or I suppose look at a small switch with a couple of multi gigabit ports, connected to the Spark modem, looks to be a reasonably priced Netgear one.

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Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

4possm

76 posts

Master Geek

#2892502 26-Mar-2022 20:27

Jase2985:
4possm:

I've fried my brain trying to find a decent answer to this question, so hoping some more network knowledgeable people can answer.

I've just upgraded both my NAS and PC to both having 10G/2.5G networking so I'm looking for an option to run these on my home network at best speed possible to handle my 4k & 8K footage. Currently running Fiber through Spark's smart modem.
Running pretty much everything else off Wifi so don't necessarily need a bunch more LAN ports but that could come in handy.

so your wanting more than Gigabit fiber?

If so you need to use the Chorus provided ONT which one 10G network port on it than you can run your network how you like

Nope, this question is for LAN not for Our actual fibre broadband connection, happy with gigabit fiber there.

shk292

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#2892660 27-Mar-2022 10:42

4possm:

I've fried my brain trying to find a decent answer to this question, so hoping some more network knowledgeable people can answer.

I've just upgraded both my NAS and PC to both having 10G/2.5G networking so I'm looking for an option to run these on my home network at best speed possible to handle my 4k & 8K footage. Currently running Fiber through Spark's smart modem.
Running pretty much everything else off Wifi so don't necessarily need a bunch more LAN ports but that could come in handy.

......

Nope, this question is for LAN not for Our actual fibre broadband connection, happy with gigabit fiber there.

Surely you just need a 10G/2.5G switch that is connected to the NAS and PC, with an uplink to the router.

cyril7

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#2892661 27-Mar-2022 10:50

Hi, @4possm, surely you just need a switch as below and a couple of 10G SFP's ?, 10G UTP adaptors connect to PC and NAS, GigE port of switch goes to your existing router. Run the switch on SwOS not RouterOS.

https://www.gowifi.co.nz/mikrotik/crs305-1g-4s_in.html

https://www.gowifi.co.nz/s_rj10.html

If your NAS and PC have SFP ports rather than 10G UTP then its way cheaper to use fibre between them and the switch

https://www.gowifi.co.nz/ubiquitinetworks/uf-mm-10g.html

Cyril

Edit; if your 10G interface on the NAS is UTP (which i would imagine it is) then this may be better value

https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/SWHDLK25106/D-Link-DMS-106XT-6-Port-Multi-Gigabit-Unmanaged-Sw

4possm

76 posts

Master Geek

#2893090 28-Mar-2022 12:07

cyril7:

Hi, @4possm, surely you just need a switch as below and a couple of 10G SFP's ?, 10G UTP adaptors connect to PC and NAS, GigE port of switch goes to your existing router. Run the switch on SwOS not RouterOS.

https://www.gowifi.co.nz/mikrotik/crs305-1g-4s_in.html

https://www.gowifi.co.nz/s_rj10.html

If your NAS and PC have SFP ports rather than 10G UTP then its way cheaper to use fibre between them and the switch

https://www.gowifi.co.nz/ubiquitinetworks/uf-mm-10g.html

Cyril

Edit; if your 10G interface on the NAS is UTP (which i would imagine it is) then this may be better value

https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/SWHDLK25106/D-Link-DMS-106XT-6-Port-Multi-Gigabit-Unmanaged-Sw

Great answer thanks.
will check them out.

arnies

525 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2903260 17-Apr-2022 19:34

Looking for a router that can setup VPN connection, manage multiple VLANS (for splitting iOT, home, work devices). I currently have 2x Unifi APs.

I'm on a gigabit fibre connection.

Was looking at UDM but from what I've heard the price / features aren't amazing and I don't use the Protect functionality.

Any others that fit the bill?

fe31nz

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#2903292 17-Apr-2022 22:34

arnies:

Looking for a router that can setup VPN connection, manage multiple VLANS (for splitting iOT, home, work devices). I currently have 2x Unifi APs.

I'm on a gigabit fibre connection.

Was looking at UDM but from what I've heard the price / features aren't amazing and I don't use the Protect functionality.

Any others that fit the bill?

If what you want is a straight router rather than the UDM type product, an EdgeRouter ER4 is a good fit. I use one (having replaced an ERLite with it), and I am very happy with it. I believe that you can install Wireguard on it for VPNs, but I have it running OpenVPN as a backup to the OpenVPN running on my 24/7 MythTV Ubuntu box. I have been running OpenVPN since well before Wireguard was created, and have not found the need to change as I do not need the higher throughput that Wireguard can do on a smaller CPU such as is found in routers, since I am using a full PC CPU for that. Do bare in mind that unless your router has cryptographic offload hardware that supports the VPN type you want to use, it will do the cryptography in its CPU, and CPUs are not so fast in most routers. So if you have a 24/7 PC running that you can do the VPN connections to, that is usually a better option for higher throughput. However, routers do often have cryptographic offload hardware for IPSEC - I think the ER4 does, but check before relying on that. But IPSEC is generally more difficult to set up and use than Wireguard or OpenVPN. And cryptographic offload hardware is not infinitely fast either - you need to read the specifications carefully, if you can find them.

In terms of features, ER4s can do anything that a normal Linux TCP/IP stack can do, plus they have hardware offloading to handle gigabit throughput. Not all Linux TCP/IP features are supported in the ER configuration, but there is always the ability to drop to the Linux command line to do really tricky features. I am doing that in a couple of places in my config. ER4s still do not have a big enough CPU to do CPU based routing at gigabit speed, so you can not do QoS unless you want to restrict the speed to less than half a gigabit. That is not a problem, as you do not want to do QoS on a gigabit fibre connection.

On the VLAN front, an ER4 will do anything VLANish that Linux can do, so that is just about everything. But if you are wanting to use VLANs, you really need to pair a VLAN capable router with a switch that does full VLAN support, as switches are really where VLANing is done. I have an EdgeSwitch 24 Lite (24 port non-PoE) switch and it really makes VLANs easy. The EdgeSwitches are full commercial grade switches that pretty much have all the features you ever find in a switch. I am running two main VLANs: Outer (my DMZ subnet for guests and Internet exposed servers), and IoT. The rest of the traffic ("Inner") runs untagged through the switch, except to my Unifi FlexHD WiFi AP which only has one Ethernet port and has to have both Inner and Outer (and IoT) on the same cable. I have two of the ER4 ports connected to the ES24 switch, one for Inner/IoT and one for Outer so that the traffic does not interfere with each other and they can both do full gigabit at the same time. I run other VLANs from time to time for various things I am trying, and it is easy to set them up.

My network is full IPv6 wherever possible, and to do that in an ER4 requires using the config language on the CLI rather than just the GUI. Even with IPv4 there are things that require using the CLI rather than the GUI, but you can get an ordinary IPv4 only network set up fully using the GUI. As I have more than the normal number of subnets used in home networks, I chose to use the zone firewall setup, which was a lot of work initially, but now means that I can normally add a new subnet or VLAN very quickly. The opposite is true if you use the standard firewall config. Using the zone firewall does slow down the boot time for the ER4. When I was using my old ERLite, it was taking over 7 minutes to boot - the ER4 is much better. I have not measured it recently, but I think it is less than 3 minutes. But I do have a big config, not just from all the firewall rules.

The best price/performance these days seems to be with the MikroTik routers - lots of Geekzoners seem to be using them. Configuring them seems to be a fairly steep learning curve, but as I understand it they should be just as capable as an ER4. But I have never used one myself.

michaelmurfy

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#2903293 17-Apr-2022 22:42

@fe31nz I no-longer recommend the Ubiquiti Edgerouter at all given Ubiquiti has abandoned it. Just look at the last time you got a software update for it. It is also clear they're not adding any new features either plus it is running a very outdated version of Debian with known security problems.

If you're buying a new router then I'd recommend going with one which is currently supported. If you're using UniFi access points already then the UniFi Dream Machine is actually a good move for most people as being a simple option. You don't have to use UniFi Protect.

I've personally switched to Mikrotik. The Mikrotik RB5009 is very good value if you're wanting something quite a bit more advanced.

Edit - This is something I am considering too:

Michael Murphy | https://murfy.nz
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nztim

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#2903294 17-Apr-2022 22:50

I want to play with the 5009 however my go to router the RB4011 which I have stood behind for ages now has little brother the HAP AC3 which is the same processor and chipset just with one 5 port switch instead on two

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