Powerline advice

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Lizard1977

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#115844 9-Apr-2013 08:41

I'm likely to be getting UFB installed in about a month, so I'm starting to think about setting up a wired network in our house. The ideal would be a professionally-installed ethernet network in each room, but I think the cost will be too great at this stage. I have considered running ethernet cables underfloor from the room where the ONT will likely be placed, to each of the rooms where we have computers (about three to four), but I think there might be difficulties accessing the underfloor cavity of our 1920s bungalow. I'm also unsure whether a set of four ethernet cables from the router to each device would be the best setup.

So I'm leaning towards buying Powerline adapters. It seems pretty easy to set up, and would be relatively cheap to buy a set to start with, and expand over time. I do have a couple of questions though:

1. How many adapters would I need for my setup? I'm envisaging having an ISP-supplied router connected to the ONT, which will be routing data for two to three computers in different rooms. Would I have one adpater connected to the router, and then one adpater for each of the PCs (three to four adpaters in total)? Or would it be a one-to-one arrangement, with multiple adapters connected to the router for each PC being serviced (four to six adpaters)?

2. Will 200mbps be fine for UFB, or would 500mbps be better? I'm thinking of my experience with wireless N's "300mbps" speed which is much lower in practice. I understand that the condition of the wiring is a factor in overall speeds so presumably if the wiring limits actual speeds to about 100mbps, I'm presuming that a 500mbps adapter isn't going to magic up extra speed.

3. I've been looking at a TP-Link set of adapters. Any recommendations on brand? Are the brands compatible if they use the same standard, or not really?

4. By my estimates, the cheapest I could set up a powerline network (using 2 x TP-Link 200mbps kits (2 adapters in each kit) is about $150. Is it fair to say that the other options - a professional ethernet installation or laying the ethernet cables under the hourse myself - are going to be significantly more expensive than $150?

5. Does any of this make sense? :)

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I iz your trusted friend
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#795404 9-Apr-2013 09:47

The 200Mbps and 500Mbps that you'll get are theoretical speed in utmost superb connection.

For best connection, you should not plug the EoP device on switchboard as most switchboard has surge protector that filter out noise. So get yourself one of those piggyback extension cord and plug the EoP device right at the piggyback (especially if the unit doesn't play friendly with neighbouring socket).

And within the "same room" you should get closer to full theoretical speed, however if you're connecting from/to another room your best will be half of theoretical speed.

So having said that, if the price difference between the 500Mbps and 200Mbps is minimal, then get 500Mbps.

I have 2 sets of DHP-501AV POWERLINE AV 500 ADAPTER STARTER KIT and you can get this DHP-540 POWERLINE AV 500 4-PORT GIGABIT SWITCH. You can get from Harvey Norman.

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timmmay

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#795491 9-Apr-2013 11:47

I had a powerline network in my old old house, which had the wiring replaced some time in the past (not sure when). It had trouble getting over 10Mbps. Make sure you buy from somewhere that will accept returns with no hassles if they don't work as well as you hope.

Lizard1977

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#795493 9-Apr-2013 11:52

Thanks Chiefie,

The 4-port powerline device is one that I saw somewhere else and confused me a little bit. It sounds like you would plug a single adapter into your router, and then the 4-port powerline adapter would plug in another room somewhere, effectively giving you connectivity for four devices? Is that how it works? Also, I see on the D-Link page that it says it's not compatible with certain other models. Do you know whether D-Link powerline devices are generally compatibile with other brands, e.g. TP Link?

If 200mbps is a theoretical maximum based on perfect conditions, then I suspect that with my wiring I will probably get less than half of that (say, 80mbps). But is that to say that I would still get less than half if I used a 500mbps adapter (say, 200mbps), or is that just fuzzy maths?

Lizard1977

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#795497 9-Apr-2013 11:56

timmmay: I had a powerline network in my old old house, which had the wiring replaced some time in the past (not sure when). It had trouble getting over 10Mbps. Make sure you buy from somewhere that will accept returns with no hassles if they don't work as well as you hope.

That's good advice about choosing a place with a flexible return policy - unless there's any friendly Palmerston North-based Geekzoners who would be happy to loan me their powerline adapters to try it out?

mikebails

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#795499 9-Apr-2013 11:57

For some comparison - In my house (built in 2004) I get around 140mbps using Netgear AV500 adapters. I would expect the older the house/wiring the worse it may be.

DarthKermit

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#795533 9-Apr-2013 12:22

I live in PN, the same as you. Would you like a hand to drill some holes down thru your walls to run cables? I got all sorts of augers and extensions.

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chevrolux

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#795659 9-Apr-2013 14:39

As above, I used to do this work on a daily basis (now we have an apprentice to do it lol). More than happy to help out here in Palmy. You would be surprised where we can run cables some times ;)

It will probably be cheaper than getting a bunch of that powerline gear.

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Lizard1977

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#795704 9-Apr-2013 15:49

Thanks Darth and chevrolux for the offers - I'll keep them in mind. It might be worth inviting you round one weekend to have a look and see what can be done...

chiefie

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#795711 9-Apr-2013 16:06

I'd definitely recommend drilling holes and get the networking on real hard wire is the best way.

All Powerline products are HomePlug 2.0 standards and should be compatible across different manufacturers, the compatibility issue would be networking with HomePlug 1.0 (way way way old days of 10Mbps) but it shouldn't interfere it. They just won't see each other on the line.

As for the real world speed, yes, it's a fuzzy maths depending on the quality of line. I get the best of 140Mbps on my d-link AV500, and the further the powerpoints are apart from each other, the speed decreases. Having said that, even at 80Mbps it's still good enough for streaming 720p videos from NAS.

Powerline solution is easiest if you want no fuss no damage to the house, but it's far from the best ideal networking compare to hard wiring. It's slightly more "satisfying" than WiFi.

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Oriphix

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#795713 9-Apr-2013 16:10

Not to Hi-Jack this thread anyone in Auckland, Shore do this for a living that can give quote for hard wired networking.

Behodar

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#795714 9-Apr-2013 16:13

Another note about powerline adapters: I have fluorescent lighting and when connected, the powerline adapters made my lights emit a quiet buzz. I ended up using Wi-Fi instead of powerline (I needed Ethernet upstairs so I set an AP to pick up the existing Wi-Fi and turn it into Ethernet).

DarthKermit

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#797230 10-Apr-2013 16:24

Lizard1977: Thanks Darth and chevrolux for the offers - I'll keep them in mind. It might be worth inviting you round one weekend to have a look and see what can be done...

No worries. As chevrolux says, there are all sorts of ways to run cables in houses.

Besides, it would be good to meet a fellow geekzoner.

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Lizard1977

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#799054 14-Apr-2013 09:09

I was browsing through Jaycar on Friday and found they had a 200mbps powerline kit (Digitech no-brand) for $86.50. They have a 7 day "change your mind" policy, so it was a perfect chance to try it out and see if powerline would work in my house.

The good news - the powerline worked straight out of the box, using powerpoints in any of the rooms in my house, even in the sleepout which is separated from the house.

The bad news - the transfer speeds were lower than wifi. Where our computers are currently set up, wifi usually peaks around 60mbps for upload/writing, and about 40mbps for download/reading. This is testing using LANSpeedTest, writing/reading data to the NAS. The best that the powerline equipment could manage was a few mbps short of the wifi, bt frequently half of that. There doesn't seem to be much point if my existing wifi setup is better than powerline, so I returned it to Jaycar. Thumbs up to Jaycar for being a good retailer on this front - I'll definitely continue to support them because of this.

So unless I re-wire the house (which I would like to do when I have the money, but that will be several years away), powerline probably isn't an option. And even if I did re-wire the house, I would include ethernet at the same time, so there's no point pursuing powerline. I sincerely doubt that a different brand would be any better - I'm 99% certain that it's the condition of the wiring in the first place.

That leaves me with either my existing wifi setup, or running ethernet cables underfloor in a "makeshift" network to connect up the key rooms. I'm not ruling that out at the moment, but it seems that wifi wouldn't be a bottleneck for UFB up to 30mbps. So it might make sense to go for a 30mbps connection to start with. If the installers can do some extra wiring cheaply, then I could always up-size to a 100mbps connection. But otherwise I would probably be fine with a 30mbps connection, and can then save up for the cash to re-wire the house with ethernet and up-size to 100mbps later on...

DarthKermit

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#799060 14-Apr-2013 09:28

Morning, Lizard.

Does your 1920s house have the old black rubber wiring or the even older wiring inside metal conduits? I don't know if you'd get better speeds over modern TPS wiring or not. Someone on here might know. There are a couple of sparkies who post on the boards.

If you do upgrade your electrical wiring at a future time when you have the money, bear in mind that ethernet cables need to have a separation distance from power cables for safety and interference reasons.

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Lizard1977

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#799063 14-Apr-2013 09:40

I'm not sure what the wiring is in the original part of the house. In the newer part, I think it's white sheathed cabling, but I've never really looked.

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