faulty internet comms

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PhilANZ

352 posts

Ultimate Geek

#195476 21-Apr-2016 11:39

Not sure if this is the right forum for this but we have been having problems since January 2015 and are getting desperate. We moved our accounting business home for medical reasons some years ago. In some ways we have been ahead of the curve re "cloud" accounting (but most clients still use desktop software which we support with TeamViewer).
Last January our router died. It was just an entry level machine but we decided to go upmarket a little since we now ran our business from home. We may have had problems before then - but they've been bad since.
We eventually realised that we still had some Cat5 cabling in places, and also had a 10Mb switch. So we replaced those, as we have recently replaced our old VOIP box which expired. We've had Chorus in and they found some "unusual" things (we've only ever had Telecom in) and also reduced our peak performance marginally to minimise problems.
We also had outside help in in the early days - but they were worse than useless.
Mostly we've had our ISP (WXC) monitor and test the system. We've thought of changing ISP's, but we've been with them ever since we upgraded to broadband (remember dial-up days when the internet was smallish?). We've had really good service and we don't think swapping would be good. Plus we haven't found an ISP who would provide their service, including VOIP, and a home phone (for medical emergencies) (not that WXC do that hence we're caught with the stupid double charge that Chorus introduced last year).
The last straw came when a TeamViewer session with a client failed - badly. We rushed out and bought another modem/router. And the problem's vanished. For a fortnight. We swapped back to the original router - and had no major problems for a month or so. Now they're back again. Sometimes a soft reset does the trick - but usually a hard reset is required.
Having tried two different routers we really think the issue is not the router. But we've reached the end of our ability - in fact we reached this a long time ago. So if anybody has any suggestions on what we might be able to do about this I'd reeally appreciate it.

mdf

3516 posts

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#1537342 21-Apr-2016 11:43

Where are you? For business critical applications, I'd suggest it's time to call in a pro.

PhilANZ

352 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1537386 21-Apr-2016 12:30

We're in the Hutt - more specifically Lower Hutt. We've had a few people in both here and when we had offices over the years. Our impressions are not good. Standard problems are generally no problem - but it they're standard then we generally fix it - with support from others as required. If there is someone who can fix it for us we'd love to know - but an added complication is that we can't simply afford to spend on trial and error. And yes I know we can't afford to have the internet fail us again - hence the second router. But issues like my medical challenges mean we have exhausted our reserves and can't afford to employ someone on the off-chance they might do better than others.

mdf

3516 posts

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#1537583 21-Apr-2016 16:10

If it were me, I'd be carrying out a root and branch review of all the wiring from the demarcation onward. If it's not the router, it's probably the wiring.

Not sure if he's still working in the space, but @cyril7 was awesome when my mother was having wiring problems. Turns out a useless sparky had put in a master filter after the lead-in cable branched...

For the phones, it you're looking to rationalise around a robust solution, @nzgman has some really really solid solutions. Might be overkill, but if you need something super reliable for medical monitoring you might be better off over- rather than under-killing.

Mattmannz

471 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1537589 21-Apr-2016 16:26

I work for an IT Company in the Hutt and we specialise in networking and infrastructure. You don't really say what your issues have been other than dropping the internet.

9 times out of 10 if you have replaced the router then the issue will be with internal cabling or the ISP circuit. Usually the ISP circuit issues can be identified and acknowledged and most times sorted.

If you don't have a master filter installed with dedicated quality wiring for the internet circuit then that is a must.

PhilANZ

352 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1537639 21-Apr-2016 17:23

Like you say, if it's not the router it's probably the wiring. Having two new (well one's over a year old now) routers and both seem to deteriorate over time, I conclude it's not likely to be the routers. Could be wrong and don't know how else to test.
Chorus tested the cabling for us - and made small changes which did "tighten" the system - fewer little niggles loadning sites, etc. They did NOT test the entire cabling in the house - and I didn't deem it necessary. We have the same problem with WIFI. The router seems to lose connection with our ISP. But they tell us their tests are still within Chorus's standards. Raises immediate questions in my mind about those standards - but I am way out of my depth here.
Even this talk of master filters has me confused about exactly what Chorus did / said about that. But I assume (naievety?) they knew what they were doing. Certainly the guy seemed on the right track - and the system did behave better afterwards.
And re the phones / medical backup - it's fine at the moment - just reluctant to do away with a home line if I do need it (e.g if / when the transplant fails).

webwat

2036 posts

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#1538426 22-Apr-2016 21:14

PhilANZ: Like you say, if it's not the router it's probably the wiring. Having two new (well one's over a year old now) routers and both seem to deteriorate over time, I conclude it's not likely to be the routers. Could be wrong and don't know how else to test.
Chorus tested the cabling for us - and made small changes which did "tighten" the system - fewer little niggles loadning sites, etc. They did NOT test the entire cabling in the house - and I didn't deem it necessary. We have the same problem with WIFI. The router seems to lose connection with our ISP. But they tell us their tests are still within Chorus's standards. Raises immediate questions in my mind about those standards - but I am way out of my depth here.
Even this talk of master filters has me confused about exactly what Chorus did / said about that. But I assume (naievety?) they knew what they were doing. Certainly the guy seemed on the right track - and the system did behave better afterwards.
And re the phones / medical backup - it's fine at the moment - just reluctant to do away with a home line if I do need it (e.g if / when the transplant fails).

You still havent mentioned anything specific that can point to it being the line or the router. Have you done the whole isolation test? Can you post the line stats from your modem's ADSL status screen?

Also, did Chorus install a master filter? Have you now got the modem plugged on its own into a dedicated "ADSL" outlet? I normally also recommend plugging routers at least into a surge protection board.

Also take note of whether the DSL light on the router is still on at that time, before you get tempted to restart it. When you do restart, make sure you switch it off for a minute before switching on again. When the internet dies, please try to "ping" the router's LAN address to confirm if the router itself is functioning. You can do a ping by: opening the command screen (search or run "cmd", or find it in the "accessories/system tools" menu), check the LAN IP address of your router (type "ipconfig" and enter - the router's address is the "gateway" eg 192.168.1.1), type "ping 192.168.1.1" and enter. 4 replies mean something's working but hard to confirm, but 4 time-outs mean the router definitely has its own internal fault and needs a restart. If you get confirmed router faults alot then the modem needs to go back to the shop.

Time to find a new industry!

PhilANZ

352 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1540625 23-Apr-2016 12:57

Just to let you know health and other issues have delayed me digesting and testing the last post (will be slow anyway as I get to grips with what it all means) but I am not ignoring it - very appreciative of the help.

Sharesies

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

PhilANZ

352 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1541201 24-Apr-2016 16:25

Whew! So we made some time to work on it. Our APC ES550 UPS is a few years old now - guessing about 5 - but it suddenly occured to me maybe it had developed less than 100% performance - everything else has - so we've temporarily removed it from use. Just in case. Usually the modem / router, switch, VOIP box and two phones are plugged into it.

The other issue is that it seemed to be faulty first thing this morning. But before rebooting I tried connecting via cable. It worked. My wife also connected - her newer laptop has 5G WIFI. So it was only 2.4G WIFI out. At the end of the testing we returned to the Belkin router and everything's back to normal (for now). This is separate from the normal problem - that happens via cable with WIFI not connected. But in hindsight I have noticed the 2.4G WIFI being problematic at times - for phones and my wife's tablet.

We'd never heard of an isolation test, but thanks to google we started running it. We only have three lines in. The main in-line is in the dining room. We started there with our newer newer but slightly downmarket Netcomm. When we moved to the second and third lines in and weren't getting the normal lights, my wife suddenly remembered (my memory's been sub par since my stroke) that when Chorus were here last year, he said that in future only the main line in would provide internet access. Not quite sure what he did - but the larger box (above the two phone sockets - back in the dial-up days) is empty. We have a splitter for phone and modem to plugin to the phone line.

As for ADSL status screen - I'm not sure what this is.

I use PING OK - but I also use Angry IP scanner to help determine what's on my network.

At this stage I'm working without a UPS and waiting for a fault to occur - not just wifi 2.4 but on the while router, affecting cabled and VOIP operations.

Thanks

PhilANZ

352 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1547708 6-May-2016 16:33

Well, here's a possible turnup for the books. When we had the last router crash (24/4) we restarted without the APC UPS. Haven't had a crash since then. Perhaps it's because I've been holding my breath since then - it's quite scary. And writing this means it may well crash now - but ... maybe?

Don't know off-had the exact age of the UPS - but it must be 5 years or so. It's not a heavy duty unit - but I would have expected a longer life. maybe I should just run it down flat and recharge it? Or should I bite the bullet and get a new one?

Of course this assume it will fix the problem. Can't believe it could be that simple.

Spyware

3763 posts

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Lifetime subscriber

#1547721 6-May-2016 17:39

It isn't that simple so don't waste your time.

Spark Max Fibre using Mikrotik CCR1009-8G-1S-1S+, CRS125-24G-1S, Unifi UAP, U6-Pro, UAP-AC-M-Pro, Apple TV 4K (2022), Apple TV 4K (2017), iPad Air 1st gen, iPad Air 4th gen, iPhone 13, SkyNZ3151 (the white box). If it doesn't move then it's data cabled.

PhilANZ

352 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1548026 7-May-2016 17:36

So you're right - I thought that might happen - say yesterday no probs and today couldn't connect via 2.4 but cable / 5 worked. Soft restarted the router - no change. Soft restarted again and lost cable connectivity. Hard reset. Sigh.

PhilANZ

352 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1571208 13-Jun-2016 18:19

So a further update. I'd like to say everything's solved - but not quite. We've been through a lot of issues - each seeing smallish improvements - but this last one had me flummoxed. It turns out our UPS (we bought when we moved from our office back to home) was three years old - apparently about the life of a battery. new battery's been in a few weeks - and problems largely solved.
I say largely because we still have to do a soft restart to enable the 2.4 WIFI service to work. Cable and 5 WIFI seem to work reliably, and we can do soft restarts - as opposed to earlier problems requiring a hard reset. but all in all, life is pretty smooth - especially since my new laptop supports 5 Ghz WIFI.