New 48 port switch, or additional 24 ports?

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misterchris

6 posts

Wannabe Geek

#20888 9-Apr-2008 01:24

Hi there

I am installing a few new points for a friend in his office but the current network switch does not have enough ports.

What is the better option?

1. Buy a new 48 port 10/100/1000 switch and replace the old 24 port one
or
2. "Daisy Chain" a second 24 port switch out of one of the existing free ports?

Many thanks for your advice in advance

Chris :D

mckenndk

911 posts

Ultimate Geek

#122232 9-Apr-2008 02:48

To me it would come down to how much do you want to spend
a 24 port switch would be cheaper than a 48 port. you will just have a connection between them.
Might be not too much more expensive to get a 48 over a 24 port one.

And convenience in configuring, (VLAN, speed ETC) only taking up one space on the rack, you won't have 2 ports taken up conecting them together, etc.

Age of equiptment as well should come into it

Dion

muppet

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#122233 9-Apr-2008 04:20

Hard question to answer!

If they're Cisco (or some other decent switch) you can probably use EtherChannel to bond more than 1 100M port together, thus giving you 200M between the two switches.

If they're proper stackable Cisco switches then I'd go with that.

If your friend might be installing a lot of Gig NICs in their devices soon, the 48 port Gig would be a better decision now.

misterchris

6 posts

Wannabe Geek

#122234 9-Apr-2008 05:56

Wow, thanks for the prompt replies!

The setup is not rack mounted. It is a basic D-Link 24 port router, which is connected to another 16 port further down the office - my friend wants to add 8 more points in the nearest office and I was trying to advise the cheapest, but most "futureproof" option.

I wasn't sure if chaining two together was slower or not?

The Netgear 10/100/1000 48 porter I am looking at is about £400, the 24 port is cheaper, but I am concerned about speed and how well this will work as it is for a business.

Your advice appreciated.....

Whilst we are on the subject of networking, I am thinking of doing this full time - could someone please explain how a network is installed with cabinets and the definitions of fly lead, patch lead etc etc - also what is required when it comes to testing, and how as I am only used to basic switches and wires, but no cabinets!

Regards

Chris

mckenndk

911 posts

Ultimate Geek

#122235 9-Apr-2008 06:31

By the sounds of it they have a reasonable distance between both hub sites so unless you want to re-cable one end back to one hub site you would be better to get a secound 24 port switch.

I don't know how busy the network is on their site but to be future proof if you go with two hubsites you could put a GB 1000MB connection between the two, it is not a big network so I don't think you would maxamise out the bandwidth between the switches .

The cheapest way of course is to get a cheap switch and patch it into the 16 port switch.

Best courses/books for Networking is CCNA and CCNE or if you want a basics you could have a read of networking for dummies has all the details you area after in it.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Networking-Dummies-Computers-Doug-Lowe/dp/0470056207/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1207679694&sr=8-1

misterchris

6 posts

Wannabe Geek

#122236 9-Apr-2008 06:36

thanks for the advice, so there will be no gain by introduction of a 48 porter, instead (due to the 20m difference in offices and it being pre-installed) you would advice just running a 24 port off of the existing other 24 port one?

Just for reference, could you explain

"The cheapest way of course is to get a cheap switch and patch it into the 16 port switch."

I have a fairly good understanding of networking, but not anything to do with patches/panels etc - so any advice would be appreciated :)

Kind regards

Chris

mckenndk

911 posts

Ultimate Geek

#122238 9-Apr-2008 06:50

misterchris: thanks for the advice, so there will be no gain by introduction of a 48 porter, instead (due to the 20m difference in offices and it being pre-installed) you would advice just running a 24 port off of the existing other 24 port one?

It will cost more to use one switch I would beleive because you would have to re-cable all the network ports from one side of the office to the hubsite on the other side.

Just for reference, could you explain

"The cheapest way of course is to get a cheap switch and patch it into the 16 port switch."

In doing this you will just buy another 8/16 port switch (or what ever size will suit what you need) and plug (patch) it into the 16 port switch

A patch pannel is the central location where all the network outlets go to, usually a square thing either mounted on the wall or in a cabnet.
http://photos.windley.com/albums/equipment/patch_panel_1.sized.jpg
This is where you hubs/switches are located too.

Patch leads are you standard network cable used for connecting switches to the patch pannel or the pc to the socket in the wall.
You can get crossover cables as well which are used for connecting pc directly to pc or switch to switch (alot of switches will autosence if it is a crossover cable now so best to check the switch supports this or not)

misterchris

6 posts

Wannabe Geek

#122239 9-Apr-2008 07:06

are there any basic diagrams kicking about that you know of that would help me?

I'm just not quite sure what the point in a cabinet is...... do the patch panels "replace" the switch, or is the switch behind them? - I am sure once I see a diagram I will fully understand I am just trying to figure out what their purpose is though! (currently the office does not have one you see!)

I was intending to replace only one of the switches, as the other one is so far away. I am assuming that there is a CAT5 running the length of the building and it is just plugged into the switch in the main reception area, so rather than running 3 switches in total, I was going to just replace it with more ports. But if as you say an additional 24 ports will work I'll do that as it is cheaper

I do apologise for all the questions, I am sure that they are all very "noob" questions, but I am confident that I can do this, just want to be clear in my own mind how the "big boys" do "proper" installations..... as all the networks I have done before are literally "wire out of back of PC into switch" - or wireless..... not with sockets!

Chris :)

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xpd

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#122242 9-Apr-2008 07:42

Best way to learn about patch panels is to do what I did.... wire up an entire building including patch panel :)
I got shown the basics, then left to it.... was the best way to learn about the panel IMHO :) Im now quite happy to play with patch panels.

Find a friendly local tech who installs them on a regular basis and see if you can tag along for a day and get some pointers etc :)

Gavin / xpd / FastRaccoon / Geek of Coastguard New Zealand

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tonyhughes

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#122248 9-Apr-2008 07:53

Re: the original question, if you hang a second switch off the first, then the entire second switch is squeezed through that one port, which can severely impact LAN speeds/performance for those users.

You asked which was 'better' - definitley the 48 port is better, by a long shot, unless you do not require LAN access, and only require internet acccess - in which case, performance should be 'adequate' for that.

misterchris

6 posts

Wannabe Geek

#122256 9-Apr-2008 09:20

thanks Tony, that was my theory - by plugging an additional "x" number of ports into a single port surely means the other switch cannot do it's job properly! - I think I'll go with the 48 port option, that way in future, if they want to upgrade to gigabit there is no need to install any additional switches, just a bit of a "re-route" with wiring. Chances are this will never happen.

Thankyou everyone for your advice, it is most appreciated.

Just wish I could find a basic diagram explaining what each "bit" is with a "proper" installation, I seem to be just confusing myself as I have not physically seen it.

Chris

tonyhughes

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#122260 9-Apr-2008 10:07

misterchris: thanks Tony, that was my theory - by plugging an additional "x" number of ports into a single port surely means the other switch cannot do it's job properly! - I think I'll go with the 48 port option, that way in future, if they want to upgrade to gigabit there is no need to install any additional switches, just a bit of a "re-route" with wiring. Chances are this will never happen.

Thankyou everyone for your advice, it is most appreciated.

Just wish I could find a basic diagram explaining what each "bit" is with a "proper" installation, I seem to be just confusing myself as I have not physically seen it.

Chris

Standard business networking at Gbit or 10/100Mb level is pretty straightforward - I reckon based on what I have seen here, that you probably know the concepts, and really just want some confirmation of that fact.

Ethernet cables are just pipes. A Gb pipe carries 10 times more than a 100Mbit pipe. (In theory). If you connect 24 100Mbit pipes (i.e. a fully loaded switch), to a 100Mbps port, then your maximum through put from that switch to the rest of the network is 100Mbps (the single port speed).

100Mbps / 24 users = approx 4Mbps per user (though it will never work out this well with an unmanaged switch!).

If you had your 24 port switch plugged into a Gigabit port on your LAN, then 1000Mbps / 24 users = approx 40Mbps per user. (Again, it wont work out even or fair, because someones machine could saturate the connection, and cause errors or slowdowns for others).

webwat

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#122455 10-Apr-2008 01:11

xpd: Best way to learn about patch panels is to do what I did.... wire up an entire building including patch panel :)
I got shown the basics, then left to it.... was the best way to learn about the panel IMHO :) Im now quite happy to play with patch panels.

Find a friendly local tech who installs them on a regular basis and see if you can tag along for a day and get some pointers etc :)

The ideal for you I think would be a 100base 24-port switch that has a Gigabit uplink port, but then you would need two of them and find that you might want a single 48-port Gigabit switch later anyway. Since you probably dont want to splash out on Gigabit yet, with lots of money being spent on 20+ metre lenths Cat6 installation cable, why not just do two Cat5 links between two 16 port switches and your main 24 port switch. No need to "future-proof" if you are going to need unecessarily expensive hardware to do it.

What I recommend, is setup a jackpoint next to each 16-port switch with a Cat5 (or Cat6) RJ45 socket, both linked by "solid" installation Cat5 or Cat6 to a double RJ45 jackpoint next to your 24-port switch. That way you can decide if best location for the new switch is on top of the old one or in the next office. You can also avoid trying to plan for an unknown future.

If you decide to go the way of structured cabling (probably with cheap 48-port switch that will eventually replaced by expensive gigabit one), then you can look at wall brackets/cabinets to house the patch panels and switch. What does the patch panel do? It acts as a big series of jackpoints that simply terminate a whole bunch of installation cable hidden in the ceiling etc, instead of leaving cables floating around.

Patch cable is flexible and "stranded" with a plug on each end, as opposed to installation cable being "solid" wire that terminates on jackpoints or special plugs (ie semi-permanent). The cable itself will have stranded or solid written on it. Each line from your computers terminates on that patch panel, allowing you to use a short 200mm patch cable to connect each link to the main switch. Your PBX lines might also terminate on another panel if you need to combine the cabling with 100base ethernet, which is useful but opens another whole can of worms if you havent done it before.

Time to find a new industry!

misterchris

6 posts

Wannabe Geek

#122730 11-Apr-2008 06:05

I've knocked up a quick "how I see it" diagram, do you have an email address I can send to, to see if I understand correctly?

Sorry, I am being a pain! :D

Chris