Wifi vs Powerline

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NightStalker

317 posts

Ultimate Geek

#214734 25-May-2017 19:49

recently moved to new rental

I'm using 1 of the bedrooms as a study that has all the desktops, servers, VDSL, etc.
Almost everything else (gaming, kodi/plex/Netflix devices) - all wired to a switch in the lounge, with the exception of a Roku in the bedroom.

I also have a Ubiquiti edgerouter poe-5 and a unifi AC Pro yet to configure/deploy as well as a few vlan capable switches (HP/dlink).

At the moment I have a cable running from the study down the hall into the lounge (switch-to-switch) and need to make this cable free.

Given its a rental property I cant do hard wiring so I'm left with wifi or powerline.

questions are:

would powerline be better than getting another Ubiquiti ac pro as an AP connected to the lounge switch.
can powerline devices "handle" VLAN's - I normally have port based VLANs for home-devices/SWMBO-work/Mine-work/lab/testing
1. current internet is VDSL in the study but when fibre is installed it will be in the lounge so will need VLANs back to the study for segregation over powerline if possible (eg ONT-edgerouter[VLANs]-Powerline-Switch[VLANs])
2. If I introduce a 3rd power line device (rather than point to point) to the bedroom would it screw up the VLAN capabilities (or would I just need a simple VLAN capable switch)
Out of the two accessible powerline brands in NZ do GZers have a preference for TP-Link or DLink?

kdn

203 posts

Master Geek

#1788709 26-May-2017 12:50

Powerline's are a layer 1 device, so they don't care what you send over them (think of it as nothing more than a cable extension) so vlans will work just fine.

With powerline, the fastest speed you will likely get (with a top of the line 1200 kit) will be 100 Mbps. Which is usually fine for most people, but if you are planning on getting >100Mb Internet then you wont be able to utilize it. In terms of stability, it should be no better or worse than wifi. You can add multiple powerline endpoints, I haven't tried it myself but I suspect for everyone you add your max throughput would drop.

The real question in considering wifi, is how many networks can you see, (where I live, I can see about 20-30 SSID's on the 2.4ghz spectrum so there is a LOT of congestion). You could consider an 802.11ac router, where there is likely very little congestion if any at all, and using 40mhz or even 80mhz channels you would likely get up to 300 Mbps. You could also plug in a wifi AP to your switches to create a wifi bridge between two wired notwork segments.

Crowdie

228 posts

Master Geek

#1788746 26-May-2017 13:48

kdn:

The real question in considering wifi, is how many networks can you see, (where I live, I can see about 20-30 SSID's on the 2.4ghz spectrum so there is a LOT of congestion).

Two points:

1. Just because you can see a WLAN (and commonly just beacons) does not mean it will adversely affect your performance. People commonly use applications like inSSIDer but they only show the amplitude of the signal not the duty cycles. To get the duty cycles you need a spectrum analyzer. With applications like inSSIDer you see how "loud" a signal is but not "how long" it is. Which is worst - a loud but short signal or a quieter but longer signal?

2. If the signal RSSI is less than -82 dBm just ignore it as the wireless adapter will.

vulcannz

436 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#1790615 28-May-2017 13:26

kdn:

Powerline's are a layer 1 device, so they don't care what you send over them (think of it as nothing more than a cable extension) so vlans will work just fine.

That is not entirely true, they are more like a bastardized layer 2/layer 3 product. You will see some state they support 802.1q and some that don't state anything at all. You also occasionally see some issues with powerline devices passing certain protocols such as DHCP.

ANglEAUT

2329 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1790652 28-May-2017 14:46

NightStalker

Out of the two accessible powerline brands in NZ do GZers have a preference for TP-Link or DLink?

I use TP-Link and hovering between satisfied & irritated. These are 4 year old devices. At the time, TL-WPA281 device was only 300Mbps and device was max 500Mbps. Now you can get 1200Mbps devices.

Every now & then, one of the four devices will freeze and only the power light will be on. No network connection or network activity. Seems to happen every 1-2 months on the devices with less traffic. The PowerLine Utility to configure the devices is very simplistic & doesn't remember the configured devices. That means if I use a different network name instead of HomePlugAV, it's a p.i.t.a. to reconfigure / add devices. Each device has a 16 digit "password" printed on it that is required for the config which means you have to unplug the device to get the password to reconfigure. File copying, Xbox gaming & media streaming at 1x speed is all OK. Watching local videos at 1.5x or 2x speed does lag.

To me, they are now the weak link in my chain. Previously, I had various Wi-Fi devices around the house trying to provide coverage. Since buying Ubiquity AP, I have no Wi-Fi issues anymore. The TP-Link devices remind me of the before Ubiquiti days.

Would love to hear about DLink experiences.

Edit: Buy the passthrough devices because these are always very bulky and don't fit next to other plugs.

Please keep this GZ community vibrant by contributing in a constructive & respectful manner.

JimmyH

2886 posts

Uber Geek

#1790677 28-May-2017 16:27

I have been using Av500 units (Netgear XAVB5001s, and XAVB5004s that come with 4 ethernet ports the adapter) since 2012.

In the study a 5001 connects my router to the powerline network. Also hanging off a switch connected to the router are my NAS, 2 desktop PCs and, when using it docked, my laptop).
In the living room a 5004 connects my TV, the Sky box, my blu-ray recorder and my music streamer to the network.
In the bedroom a 5004 unit connects my media player, my music streamer and my DVD recorder back to the network.
In the spear room cum games room, a 5001 connects my console to the network.

They work well. Everything appears to be on the same network. Transfers over powerline are about 85mbps (90 to the living room, 80 to the bedroom) which is plenty for streaming. Thusfar they have been stable and trouble free, with rock solid transfer rates.

When I streamed over WiFi streaming was a bit more problematic, especially if other devices (tablets, GFs laptop etc) were also competing and/or the neighbors changed channels.

I'm glad I went with powerline, in my experience it was inexpensive and delivers what I need.

richms

28198 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1790826 28-May-2017 21:34

Crowdie:

Two points:

1. Just because you can see a WLAN (and commonly just beacons) does not mean it will adversely affect your performance. People commonly use applications like inSSIDer but they only show the amplitude of the signal not the duty cycles. To get the duty cycles you need a spectrum analyzer. With applications like inSSIDer you see how "loud" a signal is but not "how long" it is. Which is worst - a loud but short signal or a quieter but longer signal?

2. If the signal RSSI is less than -82 dBm just ignore it as the wireless adapter will.

Also those apps will not show you why those AP's may have chosen the channel they have.

Power up an analog video sender or some of the 2.4GHz wireless speakers, and suddenly some channles will look really clear if you are looking just for SSID becons - because they are just jammed. So you go put your AP onto the middle of the "empty" channels and then you get atrocious performance because of the constant carrier from the other devices blocking it almost entirely. Spectrum will show that no problems, and AP's doing auto detection will tend to avoid high noise parts of the band.

Richard rich.ms

old3eyes

9120 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#1790899 29-May-2017 09:15

JimmyH:

I have been using Av500 units (Netgear XAVB5001s, and XAVB5004s that come with 4 ethernet ports the adapter) since 2012.

In the study a 5001 connects my router to the powerline network. Also hanging off a switch connected to the router are my NAS, 2 desktop PCs and, when using it docked, my laptop).
In the living room a 5004 connects my TV, the Sky box, my blu-ray recorder and my music streamer to the network.
In the bedroom a 5004 unit connects my media player, my music streamer and my DVD recorder back to the network.
In the spear room cum games room, a 5001 connects my console to the network.
They work well. Everything appears to be on the same network. Transfers over powerline are about 85mbps (90 to the living room, 80 to the bedroom) which is plenty for streaming. Thusfar they have been stable and trouble free, with rock solid transfer rates.

When I streamed over WiFi streaming was a bit more problematic, especially if other devices (tablets, GFs laptop etc) were also competing and/or the neighbors changed channels.

I'm glad I went with powerline, in my experience it was inexpensive and delivers what I need.

I have a set of D-Link PowerLine DHP-P309AV between the office and the AV gear and that includes the WiFi router. The first set gave me a lot of grief that resulted in transfers stalling and having to be restarted (power off/on) and intermittent lack of WiFi between the WiFi router and the LAN switch in the office resulting in the EoP unit in the AV rack dieing completely. The replacement have been 100% rock solid.

Regards,

Old3eyes