PtMP Wireless

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SirHumphreyAppleby

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Topic # 239733 1-Aug-2018 15:09

We seem to be experiencing a spike in crime, and two of my neighbours have independently asked me about setting up CCTV systems for them, or connecting cameras to my system. Having provided video to the police on four occasions in less than a year, having fewer systems seems with everything collated by one person seems like the best solution. Two sources is presently causing enough communication issues, four certainly won't be fun.

With that in mind, I am looking for a networking solution to connect their cameras. I've used Ubiquiti NanoBridge products in the past to bridge buildings, but am now looking for a point to multi-point solution that is reasonably priced.

For the remote properties, I am looking at using up to three cameras, an 802.3at injector, a 4-port PoE-powered PoE switch, and three cameras, with one port left for the wireless device (which ideally would also be 802.3af powered).

Does anyone have any recommendations for hardware that could achieve the desired result?

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Reply # 2066364 1-Aug-2018 15:19

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So you have line of sight to all the properties from yours?

If so, you would use something like the Ubiquiti Rocket with a sector antenna. And then, you could use NanoBridges as the client end radios.

SirHumphreyAppleby

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Reply # 2066369 1-Aug-2018 15:34

chevrolux:

So you have line of sight to all the properties from yours?

If so, you would use something like the Ubiquiti Rocket with a sector antenna. And then, you could use NanoBridges as the client end radios.

Thanks for that, the Rocket looks quite cost effective. Yes, I have line of sight. I'd need >90 degree coverage from my house, but could reduce that significantly if I installed the AP on the house across the road.

One of the neighbours offered me cash to set something up for them, but I'd like to go back to them with the options and ensure we're all in agreement on how to move forward.

chevrolux

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Reply # 2066370 1-Aug-2018 15:40

There are 90 and 120 degree sectors available for the Rocket radios.

Just looking at the line up (it's been a while since I have to be honest), but that PrismStation thing could be the go with one of the horn antenna options?

Dynamic

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Reply # 2066372 1-Aug-2018 15:42

I'd need >90 degree coverage from my house, but could reduce that significantly if I installed the AP on the house across the road.

The Ubiquiti Nanostation devices are cheap as chips and have about a 65 degree beam angle, from memory. I've got about a dozen dotted around the place and they have been brilliant.

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SirHumphreyAppleby

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Reply # 2066383 1-Aug-2018 15:56

chevrolux:

Just looking at the line up (it's been a while since I have to be honest), but that PrismStation thing could be the go with one of the horn antenna options?

The PrismStation looks good, but the price point is a bit high. Now that I have a better idea of what products I'm looking at, I note there is a "LiteAP AC" model, which appears to be an all-in-one 120 degree solution. Unfortunately, I can't find anywhere selling it.

EDIT: It appears this is the "LiteBeam 5AC 16 120" under a new name.

Crowdie

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Reply # 2066393 1-Aug-2018 16:16

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When using any directional antenna the horizontal (the most commonly quoted) and vertical beamwidths (where 50% of the signal is propagated) are extremely important. First of all if you have a 120 degree directional that means that 50% of the signal is propagated horizontally 60 degrees from perpendicular to the antenna. It also means that the remaining 50% of the signal is being propagated more than 60 degrees from perpendicular to the antenna. 120 degree directional antennas commonly act more like a 180 degree directional antenna because of this signal propagating outside the beamwidth area.

Excellent you say. More coverage is better. However antennas detect in coming as well as out going signal (yes I know not the correct terminology but lets keep things simple :-) ) so the larger the horizontal and vertical beamwidth the more noise that is detected by the antenna. More noise, all things being equal, equates to more 802.11 frame loss and as your requirement is a security camera solution you want to achieve the impossible 0% 802.11 frame loss. Therefore, you want to have the smallest antenna beamwidth that will achieve your goals. Sometimes you are just better off having two point to point bridges, for example, rather than a point to multi-point bridge. If you must have a point to multi-point then if a 60 degree horizontal beamwidth antenna, for example, would achieve your horizontal coverage requirements it would, all things being equal, perform better than a 120 degree horizontal beamwidth antenna. Another thing to take into account is that a smaller beamwidth antenna, all things being equal, will propagate signal farther from the antenna then a higher beamwidth antenna.

Crowdie

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Reply # 2066469 1-Aug-2018 17:58

Another antenna value you really need to watch is the vertical beamwidth. The wider the vertical beamwidth the higher you need to mount the antenna. This is not an issue with industrial deployments as we can mount the antennas on large pole with supports. This is not so easy with residential deployments due to aesthetic issues.

SirHumphreyAppleby

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Reply # 2066492 1-Aug-2018 18:41

Ubiquiti sure has a lot of products to search through. I'm buying primarily on price, so this is the combination I've come up with. Does this look like a working combination?

1x LiteBeam AC 16dBi 120deg Integrated Sector for the AP, and 2x LiteBeam LBE-5AC-Gen2 for the client devices.

I could also use four LBE-5AC-Gen2 as an alternative.

Dynamic, I like the NanoStations, but they don't include PoE injector, and only the much more expensive version supports 802.3af.

toejam316

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Reply # 2066497 1-Aug-2018 18:57

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SirHumphreyAppleby:

Ubiquiti sure has a lot of products to search through. I'm buying primarily on price, so this is the combination I've come up with. Does this look like a working combination?

1x LiteBeam AC 16dBi 120deg Integrated Sector for the AP, and 2x LiteBeam LBE-5AC-Gen2 for the client devices.

I could also use four LBE-5AC-Gen2 as an alternative.

Dynamic, I like the NanoStations, but they don't include PoE injector, and only the much more expensive version supports 802.3af.

Have you considered 3 raspberry pis, 1 VPN server 2 VPN clients, to connect the cameras back to you through their home broadband connection?

The PtMP thing only seems valuable if you expect the would be thieves to drop the houses broadband before they begin, although I guess were that the case, you could look at running a setup to share broadband connections as well in case of outages. Just a thought, otherwise either method you've looked at is fine, but if you're not expecting to expand beyond your two neighbours, the four litebeams is probably a go-er, however have you considered the older M5 versions? They'll save you about $40 a pop on go wifi, so certainly worth a gander if you can live with "only" 100Mbps.

SirHumphreyAppleby

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Reply # 2066512 1-Aug-2018 19:14

toejam316:

Have you considered 3 raspberry pis, 1 VPN server 2 VPN clients, to connect the cameras back to you through their home broadband connection?

The PtMP thing only seems valuable if you expect the would be thieves to drop the houses broadband before they begin, although I guess were that the case, you could look at running a setup to share broadband connections as well in case of outages. Just a thought, otherwise either method you've looked at is fine, but if you're not expecting to expand beyond your two neighbours, the four litebeams is probably a go-er, however have you considered the older M5 versions? They'll save you about $40 a pop on go wifi, so certainly worth a gander if you can live with "only" 100Mbps.

I have considered fibre. It wouldn't have much impact on my connection, but video would take a large chunk of the 20Mbs^-1 they have available. It's also a big jump in price to Gigabit, which even I can't justify except when I need to do large backups. A Pi plus power and storage would also be similar in price to the M5s you mention. As for the M5s, I discounted them initially as I assumed that would be wireless data, not real-world throughput. It seems I misjudged those units, and will consider them if we do PtP.

As all the houses are at the end of the street, neither option is ideal for expansion as the 120deg would be pointing the wrong way on my house. It is a set and forget thing however, so I will look at elevations and see if I can achieve better coverage from one of the other houses.

raytaylor

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Reply # 2068088 4-Aug-2018 19:44

SirHumphreyAppleby:

I have considered fibre. It wouldn't have much impact on my connection, but video would take a large chunk of the 20Mbs^-

Talk to a local ISP about building you a private network - you just need a router at each site and they can light up the second port on your ONT so it doesnt impact your recording site or your camera sites existing UFB internet connections

Ray Taylor
Taylor Broadband (rural hawkes bay)
www.ruralkiwi.com

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SirHumphreyAppleby

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Reply # 2068090 4-Aug-2018 19:54

raytaylor:

Talk to a local ISP about building you a private network - you just need a router at each site and they can light up the second port on your ONT so it doesnt impact your recording site or your camera sites existing UFB internet connections

I expect such an arrangement would come with added complexity that ISPs probably don't want, and costs I would rather not have. Sadly, we can't claim back necessary steps to protect our property in reparation claims when the bad guys come around.

@Chorusnz, is using fibre a viable alternative to wireless?

sparkz25

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Reply # 2068121 4-Aug-2018 22:10

have a look at https://link.ubnt.com/ and map out your links, this should help you out alot

chevrolux

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Reply # 2068166 5-Aug-2018 09:10

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SirHumphreyAppleby:
raytaylor:

Talk to a local ISP about building you a private network - you just need a router at each site and they can light up the second port on your ONT so it doesnt impact your recording site or your camera sites existing UFB internet connections

I expect such an arrangement would come with added complexity that ISPs probably don't want, and costs I would rather not have. Sadly, we can't claim back necessary steps to protect our property in reparation claims when the bad guys come around.

@Chorusnz, is using fibre a viable alternative to wireless?

Private WAN's are a fairly common thing for ISPs... but most certainly fall in the 'high end' category of the pricing schedule.
I personally think your original plan of a wireless network is best for this application. It will be able to be extended of required, and have essentially no ongoing costs after initial purchase.

Crowdie

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Reply # 2068327 5-Aug-2018 19:35

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sparkz25:

have a look at https://link.ubnt.com/ and map out your links, this should help you out alot

When using this tool be very careful with the recommended antenna mounting heights. You will notice that they are commonly quite high and this could be an issue with residential deployments. Do not ignore these antenna mounting heights as they are extremely important.

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