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Topic # 242830 15-Nov-2018 22:30
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I have recently been asked about the use of a wifi service using Zenbu, particularly when charging for wifi access.

 

There used to be, maybe still are, ISP/telco contractual prohibitions around internet access sharing by the principal purchaser,
because in effect the Zenbu owner becomes a 'reseller' of a product they are paying a domestic rate for … this was mostly understood
during the early days of pre-determined data caps etc.

These days with unlimited data, perhaps it's no longer a consideration?

 

Is there legal ramifications to 'on-selling' internet access?


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  Reply # 2127604 15-Nov-2018 22:55
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This will be covered under the ISP terms and conditions

John




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  Reply # 2127605 15-Nov-2018 22:56
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You mean, apart from the danger of being deemed "an ISP" for the purposes of, say, the Copyright Act and the Telecommunications (Interception Capability and Security) Act? I'd have thought that alone would open you up to a world of hurt


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 2127622 15-Nov-2018 23:10
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PolicyGuy:

 

You mean, apart from the danger of being deemed "an ISP" for the purposes of, say, the Copyright Act and the Telecommunications (Interception Capability and Security) Act? I'd have thought that alone would open you up to a world of hurt

 

 

SO is the road and bus to such campus also going to be in trouble because they enabled peeps to get to a place to alledgedly commit crimes?

 

 




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  Reply # 2127670 16-Nov-2018 08:07
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     >This will be covered under the ISP terms and conditions<

 

OK, and for example Vodafone's T&C says - 

 

"5 When we can restrict or cancel your Services 5.1
We may restrict, suspend, or cancel your Services if:
f) you resell or resupply a Service, or use it other than for ordinary personal, domestic and household purposes;
"

 

So how does the ISP handle the purported 1000 Zenbu sites around NZ that include motels, cafes, retail stores, schools, and (I suspect) a heap of private /domestic situations?

 

 


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  Reply # 2127671 16-Nov-2018 08:13
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Rickles:

 

     >This will be covered under the ISP terms and conditions<

 

OK, and for example Vodafone's T&C says - 

 

"5 When we can restrict or cancel your Services 5.1
We may restrict, suspend, or cancel your Services if:
f) you resell or resupply a Service, or use it other than for ordinary personal, domestic and household purposes;
"

 

So how does the ISP handle the purported 1000 Zenbu sites around NZ that include motels, cafes, retail stores, schools, and (I suspect) a heap of private /domestic situations?

 

 

 

 

IS extract from a business plan or a residential plan?

 

 




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  Reply # 2127674 16-Nov-2018 08:23
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    >IS extract from a business plan or a residential plan?<

 

Yes, admittedly it is from a Residential Plan.  On that basis, I assume a (higher cost) Commercial Plan would allow "re-distribution"? 


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  Reply # 2127754 16-Nov-2018 08:59
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Rickles:

 

    >IS extract from a business plan or a residential plan?<

 

Yes, admittedly it is from a Residential Plan.  On that basis, I assume a (higher cost) Commercial Plan would allow "re-distribution"? 

 

 

IANAL, but such "re-distribution" might well be held to meet the definition of "public data network" under the Telecommunications (Interception Capability and Security) Act 2013 [TISCA] and therefore render the person / organisation offering the service a "network operator" under TISCA.

 

This brings with it huge responsibilities and liabilities

 

Read Telecommunications (Interception Capability and Security) Act 2013: http://legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2013/0091/latest/whole.html#DLM5177923

 

 


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  Reply # 2127774 16-Nov-2018 09:18
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I'm quite confused by where you're going with this.

 

If you're wanting to run a hotspot you obviously need to be aware of what the T&C of your RSP contract says (and whether it allows resale of Internet access), you need to be aware of your obligations under the Copyright infringement Act and you also need to be aware of your TICSA obligations should you be reselling Internet access which could mean you are also an IPAP.

 

If you are unsure about anything you should be approaching a lawyer for legal advice.

 

 

 

 




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  Reply # 2127785 16-Nov-2018 09:32
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     >If you're wanting to run a hotspot you obviously need to be aware of what the T&C of your RSP contract says (and whether it allows resale of Internet access), you need to be aware of your obligations under the Copyright infringement Act and you also need to be aware of your TICSA obligations should you be reselling Internet access which could mean you are also an IPAP.<

 

Would it be fair to say that all cyber cafes/coffee shops, hotels/motels, restaurants, etc are fully aware and compliant of these factors?


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  Reply # 2127789 16-Nov-2018 09:36
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Rickles:

 

     >If you're wanting to run a hotspot you obviously need to be aware of what the T&C of your RSP contract says (and whether it allows resale of Internet access), you need to be aware of your obligations under the Copyright infringement Act and you also need to be aware of your TICSA obligations should you be reselling Internet access which could mean you are also an IPAP.<

 

Would it be fair to say that all cyber cafes/coffee shops, hotels/motels, restaurants, etc are fully aware and compliant of these factors?

 

 

Yes and no.

 

Plenty are fully aware of their obligations, which is why so many deploy fully managed services rather than trying to take the cheap DIY approach.

 

There will clearly be many taking the DIY approach who end up with a very poor solution  that opens themselves up to potential legal action along with delivering an insecure solution for both themselves and their guests or customers.

 

 

 

 




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  Reply # 2127794 16-Nov-2018 09:41
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@sbiddle and @policeguy … thanks for that.


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  Reply # 2128906 18-Nov-2018 15:02
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One thing I should point out is that unlimited data plans are sold based on good faith statistical assumptions about the subscriber. 

 

Eg. an ISP may sell a unlimited plan, at a certain price point based on the fact that the subscriber wont resell service and more matches the usage patterns of other similar subscribers, and that there is a small room for error. 

 

You win some, you loose some. It makes financial sense to take a chance. 

 

But a reseller would have a usage pattern that simply cant fit into that model. 





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  Reply # 2128967 18-Nov-2018 17:51
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To me the greatest concern is around Copyright / Illicit / TISCA.

 

Worst case if someone downloads dodgy kiddy stuff or threaten to blow someone up and certain government agencies get involved you could be legally liable as the account holder. 






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  Reply # 2129064 18-Nov-2018 21:51
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Is this for an actual use case?

If so, consider contacting 2degrees and seeing what's involved in offering their prepaid broadband solution.

https://prepay.2degreesbroadband.co.nz

As far as I can tell. Each user creates their own PPPOE session back to 2degrees. So you don't have to worry about monitoring your users. Presumably if you are providing Ethernet, your users could just plug in their own routers. And program them with their 2degrees username and password.

Another option would be to just run a firewall. That only allows traffic to known VPN services. And just tell your users to sign up to their favorite VPN service.





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