Powerline Networking Issue

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Spam4Life

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Wannabe Geek

#246688 17-Feb-2019 14:58

So we finally got fibre in our suburb, and we install it ASAP. So now the LAN/wifi speed becomes the bottleneck rather than the pipe to internet. So I use speedtest.net to do a lot of testing. I use TP-Link AV1200 for LAN networking from the wifi router/modem to my PC. The TP-Link utility tells me the link isn't a gigabit network, but ~300mbps, even though in theory AV1200 can do gigabit.

The problem I have is that the powerline network speed according to speedtest is consistently lower than my 5ghz wireless AC speed. The ping time of the powerline network is better (by 10 ms), but it never consistently goes up to 100 mbps, which is our theoretical fibre speed cap at the moment. But the 5ghz wifi consistent goes up to (and sometimes above) the fibre speed cap.

So my question is, is it normal? Short of getting another powerline adapter, I have no idea whether it is the adapter that is faulty, or if the electrical network in our house can only handle ~300mbps and that is limiting the speed (if I had known our house can only do ~300mbps powerline network, I would have bought the cheaper AV600 plug, which would be more than enough). In real world usage, ping is more important, so I'm sticking with the powerline network at the moment but in general, 5ghz wireless AC seems to be good enough.

cyril7

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#2181606 17-Feb-2019 18:24

Hi can you not run a Ethernet cable or have a sparkie or data installer put one in. Ethernet over power is always a hit and miss technology and not always a lot can be done to fix it.

Things you can do, ensure no power filters are on the circuit for the signal to pass through, ie power strips with built in filters, also check the performance when connected side by side on the same power outlet, see how that compares.

Edit: as for wireless performance, it's depends on many parameters, ie what band, what bandwidth is set on the router, and how many MIMO chains does your test laptop support.

Cyril

nitro

657 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2181960 18-Feb-2019 12:16

echoing cyril7's question: is there no way to run an Ethernet cable?

the other thing is if your wifi is better than your powerline Ethernet link, why not just use wifi?

what i'm trying to say is that i'm not really optimistic about your chances of getting much (or any) better throughput from your powerline gear. my father-in-law is using the AV500 version (also from TP-Link) and the best i've gotten out of it is 45 Mbps. (not saying that's the best that gear can do, but it is for his situation)...

he was tempted to upgrade to the ones you have over the Boxing Day sale period, but i discouraged him from doing so. suggested that laying an Ethernet cable from his router in the lounge to a room next door (maybe a 10m, worst case 12m, run) would be a much better option than ~$150 for a new pair of those powerline adapters.

if only i had as much luck convincing him to just use wifi, he'd make better use of his 100/20 fibre connection... but he reckons it's (wifi) not safe. i can only try again next time we're at his house (different cities, so not that often).

Spam4Life

8 posts

Wannabe Geek

#2183239 18-Feb-2019 20:48

I probably can DIY laying the ethernet cable. It looks like at most an afternoon's work, just need to staple the cable along the floor. But I thought powerline networking is supposed to remove all that hassle.

So I guess it is quite normal to be disappointed by the (lack of) speed of powerline network. Sigh. Thanks for the replies.

Wireless AC signal from my router to my PC is fair, not strong, and it just has to travel ~10m and 3 walls. But at least I know my neighbours won't be getting my AC signal because it will probably be too weak over there.

1101

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#2183518 19-Feb-2019 11:11

From TPLinks website
" The terms “AV1200” and “1200Mbps” are derived from applicable specifications and refer to the theoretical maximum physical-layer data transfer rate"

in other words , in real world use, BS . :-)
Heres some real world testing , 1/2 way down the page
https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-powerline-networking-kit/

Powerline is more of a last resort sort of thing .
300mbps isnt that bad for this sort of device .

nitro

657 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2183538 19-Feb-2019 11:35

you'd be much better off with Ethernet (wired) anyway...

fwiw, you already have the current best powerline device... and you're getting pretty much the best you can get out of them based on testing done by smallnetbuilder:

SNB Powerline Chart

tplink-tlpa8030p-3-port-gigabit-passthrough-powerline-starter-kit

dacraka

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#2183544 19-Feb-2019 11:46

I get great speeds using TP Link's AV2000 model, try a few different circuits/powerpoints?

lucky015

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#2183578 19-Feb-2019 12:48

Spam4Life:

I probably can DIY laying the ethernet cable. It looks like at most an afternoon's work, just need to staple the cable along the floor. But I thought powerline networking is supposed to remove all that hassle.

So I guess it is quite normal to be disappointed by the (lack of) speed of powerline network. Sigh. Thanks for the replies.

Wireless AC signal from my router to my PC is fair, not strong, and it just has to travel ~10m and 3 walls. But at least I know my neighbours won't be getting my AC signal because it will probably be too weak over there.

Just a quick note, Stapling an Ethernet cable would not be recommended as it's easy to snap the strands inside.

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Hammerer

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#2183588 19-Feb-2019 13:11

I agree with the good advice above. Direct-cabled is so much better particularly if you're focused on ping/gaming. WiFi and powerline are last resorts.

The following is just more info if you don't decide to install a direct cable.

Spam4Life:

So my question is, is it normal? Short of getting another powerline adapter, I have no idea whether it is the adapter that is faulty, or if the electrical network in our house can only handle ~300mbps and that is limiting the speed (if I had known our house can only do ~300mbps powerline network, I would have bought the cheaper AV600 plug, which would be more than enough). In real world usage, ping is more important, so I'm sticking with the powerline network at the moment but in general, 5ghz wireless AC seems to be good enough.

I usually tell people to make their buying decision based on a average throughput (encryption on) which is no more than one-fifth of the rated throughput. Anything above that is a real bonus. So for maximum throughput I'd bank on no more than ~240Mbps for the AV1200 and ~120Mbps for the AV600.

The real-world maximum simultaneous throughput does reach one-half of the rated throughput but the wiring in most houses has worse characteristics than the test environments.You can use databases like the links below to filter actual test results.

I assume that ~300Mbps statistic is a maximum throughput. It makes a big difference because the average can be much less than half of the maximum. It also makes a difference if it is one-way, e.g. a large file transfer or large video download from the Internet, or whether it is mainly simultaneous. The difference can be about 20% lower for one-way.

Assuming TP-Link AV1200 maximum one-way then your ~300Mbps compares quite well with the tested ~400Mbps.

https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/tools/charts/powerline/bar/90-down/11?see=MAX

However, you also note that the speedtest results are less than 100Mbps and less than wireless:

Spam4Life:

The ping time of the powerline network is better (by 10 ms), but it never consistently goes up to 100 mbps, which is our theoretical fibre speed cap at the moment.

So what are the actual figures? Is the result different than direct to a Gigabit-attached computer?

I'd swap out the ethernet cable to the AV1200 as the cables can have problems.

It's not clear to me that you would continue to be happy with an AV600 or even with wireless.

Wireless is shared with all the other WiFi networks you can see so I wouldn't assume that you won't every be badly impacted by neighbours. Remember that you don't control whether their signal reaches you - I have one neighbour who impacts my throughput with an overpowered router over a 100m away through a row of trees.
The AV1200 should have some available headroom which you might need soon.

Your house can do ~300Mbps on AV1200 but would probably do almost exactly half that (~150Mbps) on AV600. This is because the main difference is that AV1200 uses twice the paths/streams (i.e. two wires) instead of the AV600s single path/stream (i.e. one wire) - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HomePlug#HomePlug_AV2.

The AV600 would handle your 100Mbps connection but that would not necessarily be the case if your linespeed is upgraded. This is more relevant because I've noticed that fibre plans are standardising on 200Mbps and the 100Mbps plans are generally being phased out.

But if the AV600 were sufficient then you could also look at the cheaper/older AV500 which might also suffice - it has about 20% less bandwidth than the AV600 (60% less than the AV1200) which added an additional frequency band. The problem is that you won't know actual performance unless you try it first.

1101

3122 posts

Uber Geek

#2183796 19-Feb-2019 16:42

If we could honestly get Gb through house power cables, with all the noise and current running through them, would we ever need Cat5e ,6 rated cables in our network ?

cyril7

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#2183835 19-Feb-2019 17:40

1101:

If we could honestly get Gb through house power cables, with all the noise and current running through them, would we ever need Cat5e ,6 rated cables in our network ?

Its still a shared media of all the devices in your house using it, so can never compare.

Cyril

Spam4Life

8 posts

Wannabe Geek

#2185125 21-Feb-2019 23:49

I've swapped out the cables connecting the modem to the powerline plug, and there is no change in speed in the powerline network, so it looks like there is nothing wrong with the cables.

I've also done more testing. The ping time of wireless AC is consistently the same as powerline network (~5ms), but download is consistently faster (100mbps vs. 80mbps). Upload is about the same (~16mbps). So I'm probably going to sell the powerline network plug on Trademe soon.

The magic of technology makes wireless network speed faster than wired network speed (albeit on wires not designed for networking). Magic! Technology! :-) :-) :-)