Orcon fibre router and Google wifi setup

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Tomresearch

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#269981 18-Apr-2020 10:42

Hi,

Hope someone can assist me.

I have an Orcon fibre router and Google wifi (3 nodes in the mesh).

What is the correct config between the Orcon router and Google wifi?

Does my Orcon router still need DHCP enabled? it currently has the 192.168.1.x subnet in its DHCP range.

Then my Google wifi devices also has DHCP in a different subnet range: 192.168.86.x.

I have noticed that my devices (laptops, phones, etc) sometimes pick up the 192.168.1.x IP address and sometimes the 192.168.86.x IP address.

I was under the impression that the Google wifi talks to the Orcon router, while all my devices in turn talk to the Google wifi (and get their IPs from google wifi) - but if both are DHCP servers, then naturally a device will obtain an IP from the first device that responds to the DHCP request.

The reason why I ask, is that at times, when on a Microsoft Teams call, my connection goes silent for a few seconds, and then the call resumes - hence my question on the setup between these 2 products/devices.

I assume some of you will have a similar setup, how have you resolved any issues, or optimized your config?

Thank you,

cyril7

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#2464594 18-Apr-2020 10:51

Hi, so sounds like your Orcon router still has its wifi turned on, hence devices are picking that up and connecting, hence pickup the 192.168.1.0/24 subnet. I suggest you turn the Orcon routers wireless off.

If you want to dispence with having the Orcon router and the current double nat situation then you could purchase a small managed switch and have that remove the vlan10 tag that is on the WAN port from the ONT. The Google Wifi product does not support vlans, so it cannot deal with that, so currently the Orcon router is needed to sort that, but it leaves you with the current muddle.

I also presume you have nothing but the Google WiFi router connected to the Orcon router, ie not other wired connections on the Orcon router.

Cyril

Tomresearch

32 posts

Geek

#2464617 18-Apr-2020 11:41

Thanks Cyril7, let me try disabling the wifi on the Orcon router.

There is nothing else directly plugged into the Orcon router, except the Google wifi. Also, thank you for the suggestion about the switch. Yes, there is a double-NAT in place with the daisy chained devices (namely: Orcon and Google.

I have also just read this article www.graemenoble.id.au/post/48695277030/double-nat-explained-and-possible-solutions, which suggests a few workarounds, and the problem:

"Problems arise mainly because the NAT tables on one device fill up or lose track of a particular connection, this type of configuration will cause issues with peer-to-peer technologies that are unable to effectively trace back the network path, MTU path discovery may not function or break and gaming/media services that use uPnP probably will not work unless reforwarding these services manually."

Possible workarounds:

- purchase an all in one device...if all else fails, might sell the Google wifi and replace with better product.

- Turn on and configure bridge mode on the (Orcon) router...might give that a go, anyone tried this with an ISP provided router?

- Turn off NAT on the second device (Google wifi) and configure routing...I dont believe I can do that with the Google wifi, can I?

- Use additional Public IP’s in your network...this involves the ISP, so that's out of the picture

- Layer 2 Switch Trick (recommended solution in the article, and similar to yours) - turn the wireless router (Google wifi) into a switch which removes any routing or NATting issues...I do not believe Google wifi can be turned into a switch, can it?

Thanks again,

Tomresearch

32 posts

Geek

#2464669 18-Apr-2020 12:42

So...upon further reading, Google Wifi supports bridge mode only when using a single Google wifi device...not in the mesh configuration where I have 3 devices.

cyril7

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#2464730 18-Apr-2020 13:23

Hi, if you want to stay with the Google product then I recommend you use it as the complete solution, ie route and wireless. As you have discovered if it is in bridge mode you loose much of its ability, and mulitple units no longer act as one.

My suggestion of a switch between the ONT and the main Google router will get around the in ability of the Google router to handle the Vlan presented by the ONT, it will also give you the ability to expand the number of LAN ports at the main Google router.

I note the switch I linked earlier is not available (due to lockdown I presume) till early next month, but this slightly more expensive one ships in 2days. PM me if you want to know more about how to configure them.

Cyril

Tomresearch

32 posts

Geek

#2464753 18-Apr-2020 14:05

so just to confirm, by getting the switch, I effectively get rid of the Orcon router? and then would need to figure out how to configure the switch to work with the fibre connection to the house?

[edit] and thank you for the offer to help out further :)

cyril7

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#2464762 18-Apr-2020 14:12

Yes, orcon router disappears, switch fits between ont and Google router, the Google router is now the one and only router.

Question, do you currently use the voice port of the orcon router.

Cyril

cyril7

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#2464778 18-Apr-2020 14:40

Hi, just one final thought, as I recall the Google product only has the one lan port, ie one WAN and one LAN, if you go with a 5port managed switch (two of which I have linked above) then that will leave you with two spare lan ports, ie one port for to the ONT, one port to the Google Wan and one port from the Google LAN, leaving two spare LAN ports to connect things to at the main router. So you may want to concider getting an 8port switch which will leave you with 5 spare lan ports.

Cyril

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Tomresearch

32 posts

Geek

#2466012 20-Apr-2020 11:58

Hi,

Thank you for all your help over the weekend.

I am going to attempt to run with the double NAT for now, disabled Wifi on Orcon router and reserved the single DHCP IP address for the external interface of the Googoel wifi device.

Will monitor things for a few days, and depending on the outcome, may go down the recommended switch route.

Thank you again!! and take care!

cyril7

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#2466017 20-Apr-2020 12:00

Hi, no worries, just one other thought came to mind, I take it currently your Google Wifi devices (not the router) are meshed via wireless, do you have wired connections to where those go? ie whats the room and cabling layout and how that connects with Orcon router, is that in the garage or elsewhere

Cyril

StackofWaffles

8 posts

Wannabe Geek

#2497431 3-Jun-2020 15:18

Tomresearch:

Hi,

Thank you for all your help over the weekend.

I am going to attempt to run with the double NAT for now, disabled Wifi on Orcon router and reserved the single DHCP IP address for the external interface of the Googoel wifi device.

Will monitor things for a few days, and depending on the outcome, may go down the recommended switch route.

Thank you again!! and take care!

Were you able to fix the double NAT? I'm also in a similar boat with Google Wifi from Orcon. Trying to setup a Plex server and facing the same issues.

cyril7

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#2497436 3-Jun-2020 15:21

StackofWaffles:

Tomresearch:

Hi,

Thank you for all your help over the weekend.

I am going to attempt to run with the double NAT for now, disabled Wifi on Orcon router and reserved the single DHCP IP address for the external interface of the Googoel wifi device.

Will monitor things for a few days, and depending on the outcome, may go down the recommended switch route.

Thank you again!! and take care!

Were you able to fix the double NAT? I'm also in a similar boat with Google Wifi from Orcon. Trying to setup a Plex server and facing the same issues.

Hi as mentioned in my post above just get a small managed switch and use it to remove the vlan tag, problem solved.

Cyril