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106 posts

Master Geek


#270067 21-Apr-2020 19:53
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Hi All,

 

I'm a long time lurker, and have always managed to find the info required until now.

 

 

 

Situation:
-I have a detached garage which is around 5m from the house, and I'd like to run networking out to it from the house (gigabit is fine).
-I'd like to run a fibre line instead of Ethernet, to avoid any potential issues with inductance & interference.
-There is an existing underground conduit already carrying the power cable to the shed. I can use this, however space is a little tight for other cables (hence the preference for running a single fibre line).
-The total length of fibre required is just under 20M from the switch inside the house to the point in the garage I'd like to place the media converter.I already have a Ubiquiti Unifi switch with unused SFP ports, so was looking at various SFP modules and a fibre/Ethernet media converter.

 

The only thing I'm having a hard time getting my head around is the fibre cables themselves. I know I need LC connectors, as they're much easier to pull through the conduit, and I'm ideally after Single Mode (SM), so that I only have to use one fibre line. However, it seems I can only find 10m SM cables, and no 20m ones. Whereas there's plenty of longer Multi Mode ones.

 

Question:
Is it possible to only use one of the two fibres for a SM connection, essentially being able to have two separate connections over one MM cable?

I was looking at using the following equipment:

Ubiquiti Media Converter (UF-AE)
Ubiquiti Single Mode Fibre SFP modules x2 (UF-SM-1G-S)

 

I'll decide on cable once I figure out what I need (hence asking here).


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  #2467375 21-Apr-2020 20:01
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Fibre to your shed, a bit of overkill, why don't you just use 5mhz wifi or a powerline ethernet adaptor, either of those would be much cheaper and easier to implement than trying to poke a fibre with a connector on the end down a conduit already used for power.

 

 




106 posts

Master Geek


  #2467379 21-Apr-2020 20:08
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- Relatively cheap.
- Solid connection.
- Already have SFP ports available on the large switch.
- The shed blocks all Wi-fi (giant Faraday cage), so I'd have to purchase some form of wireless gear anyway.
- I like the learning opportunity that comes with things like this.

 

My home network is already overkill for what I "need". Plus, how many others can say they have fibre to their shed? 😁


 
 
 
 


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  #2467380 21-Apr-2020 20:12
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Spark FibreMAX using Mikrotik CCR1009-8G-1S-1S+. UAP, UAP AC Pro, UAP AC Pro Mesh, Apple TV 4, Apple TV 4K, iPad Air 1, iPhone 6s, VodaTV Gen 2. If it doesn't move then it's data cabled.


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  #2467381 21-Apr-2020 20:12
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Best of luck trying to push a fibre thru the electrical conduit - Let us know how you go with that.

 

 

 

I may be do-able without the fibre connectors on, but then the problem is re-terminating - specialist gear is required for that as well as the skill to operate the gear.




106 posts

Master Geek


  #2467383 21-Apr-2020 20:16
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There is enough space for a couple of extra cables with room to spare, it's not completely tight but it does have a couple of bends to negotiate. (32mm conduit with one power cable).

 

However the less I have to feed through, the easier it'll be hence asking about single mode transmission.

 

 




106 posts

Master Geek


  #2467384 21-Apr-2020 20:18
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Spyware:

 

https://www.fs.com/au/products/40446.html

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the link, I was only looking at a couple of NZ sites and I wasn't having much luck.


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  #2467387 21-Apr-2020 20:21
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Spark FibreMAX using Mikrotik CCR1009-8G-1S-1S+. UAP, UAP AC Pro, UAP AC Pro Mesh, Apple TV 4, Apple TV 4K, iPad Air 1, iPhone 6s, VodaTV Gen 2. If it doesn't move then it's data cabled.


 
 
 
 




106 posts

Master Geek


  #2467392 21-Apr-2020 20:36
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Ok, this is my understanding:

 

 

 

With the use of the SFP modules stated (UF-SM-1G-S), since they support Bidirectional communication with separate Tx/Rx wavelengths, it's possible to use one Single Mode, Simplex fibre cable to achieve full duplex comms.

 

Or have I still got some learning to do?


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  #2467393 21-Apr-2020 20:38
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Mehrts:

 

There is enough space for a couple of extra cables with room to spare, it's not completely tight but it does have a couple of bends to negotiate. (32mm conduit with one power cable).

 

However the less I have to feed through, the easier it'll be hence asking about single mode transmission.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't want to burst your bubble, It is very unlikely you will be able to pull a fibre cable thru a 32mm duct with an existing power cable in it. First problem will be that a 32mm conduit bend will not have enough radius to allow for the connector to go around when there is already and existing cable in it

 

2nd problem is whatever you use to pull the fibre thru will have to be easy on the existing power cable, you dont want to damage the power cable

 

3rd problem actually pulling the fibre duct, I'm not sure what the maximum pulling tension is on the fibre cable, but I would guess it wont be very mechanically strong, as soon as you get to one of the bends you will end up tearing the fibre in half.

 

 

 

Have you had any experience in pulling cables thru duct before? it may sound easy in theory, but in practice not so easy.

 

 

 

If you decide to pull a cat5/cat6 cable thru instead, don't besides the possibility of electrical interference, electrical standards say they must be segregated (not in the same duct)

 

 


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Master Geek

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  #2467395 21-Apr-2020 20:43
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Mehrts:

 

and I'm ideally after Single Mode (SM), so that I only have to use one fibre line. However, it seems I can only find 10m SM cables, and no 20m ones. Whereas there's plenty of longer Multi Mode ones.

 

 

You maybe getting a little confused between SingleMode/MultiMode and Simplex/Duplex.

 

 

 

As per Spywares link above Simplex is a single fibre and Duplex two fibres. Not much in it size wise, so you could use either?

 

 

 

SingleMode and MultiMode are the type of transmission through the fibre, and the fibre is generally different types and not really interchangeable. SM is typically used for longer distance, whereas MM is used for shorter runs, in your case once again either would work.

 

 

 

There should be plenty of places selling 20M patch leads, PBTech have them. Oh and If you buy a Duplex cable you only need to use one fibre for Simplex. (Bonus spare)

 

 

 

If you can wait fs.com are cheaper, and they also stock an armored cable that might b safer to pull through your duct.

 

 

 

Just make sure you get the correct optical SFP's for the fibre type.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 




106 posts

Master Geek


  #2467396 21-Apr-2020 20:43
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gregmcc:

 

Mehrts:
...

 

 

 

Don't want to burst your bubble, It is very unlikely you will be able to pull a fibre cable thru a 32mm duct with an existing power cable in it. First problem will be that a 32mm conduit bend will not have enough radius to allow for the connector to go around when there is already and existing cable in it

 

2nd problem is whatever you use to pull the fibre thru will have to be easy on the existing power cable, you dont want to damage the power cable

 

3rd problem actually pulling the fibre duct, I'm not sure what the maximum pulling tension is on the fibre cable, but I would guess it wont be very mechanically strong, as soon as you get to one of the bends you will end up tearing the fibre in half.

 

 

 

Have you had any experience in pulling cables thru duct before? it may sound easy in theory, but in practice not so easy.

 

 

 

If you decide to pull a cat5/cat6 cable thru instead, don't besides the possibility of electrical interference, electrical standards say they must be segregated (not in the same duct)

 

 

 



- I've pulled many cables through conduit as I used to do quite a lot of electrical work.
- There is already a drawstring in the conduit (should have stated that in OP).
- Sweeping bends have been used for the conduit
- I know about not running Ethernet in the same conduit as power (hence the reason for fibre instead).




106 posts

Master Geek


  #2467400 21-Apr-2020 20:50
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Thanks for the replies fellas, I know how electrons behave in cables, but not so much with photons!

 

My main goal was wanting to see if I could use only one fibre core between buildings (which when using the correct gear is possible)

 

I've never had any experience with fibre before, so I'm taking this as a learning experience. To be completely honest, I was expecting the cost for all the fibre gear to be much more expensive.


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  #2467401 21-Apr-2020 20:50
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Spark FibreMAX using Mikrotik CCR1009-8G-1S-1S+. UAP, UAP AC Pro, UAP AC Pro Mesh, Apple TV 4, Apple TV 4K, iPad Air 1, iPhone 6s, VodaTV Gen 2. If it doesn't move then it's data cabled.




106 posts

Master Geek


  #2467408 21-Apr-2020 20:58
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Spyware:

 

Armoured

 

https://www.fs.com/au/products/20745.html

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the link, I think armoured would be the better way to go.




106 posts

Master Geek


  #2467415 21-Apr-2020 21:11
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My goal in the future is to have a semi-offsite "server" located in the garage for data backups from the one in the house.

I'll also be installing PoE IP cameras (two in/on the garage), so with the Ubiquiti Media Converter already powered via a small 8 port switch which I already have (Unifi US-8-60W), I think this setup would work nicely and leave plenty of room to expand in the future.

 

 


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