Vodafone ultra hub and wi fi booster tips

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wlgtraderx

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#271889 30-May-2020 23:50

Hi all, I am on Vodafone HFC Max (c.900/90) Have the Vodafone ultra hub. I live in a 100 year old house and the cable comes into my attic area where the cable modem is, and so also the ultra hub router. The house is single level. This set up works fine but has always been a minor source of frustration that my wifi speeds are quite a bit below what I know is possible based on the connection. When I was next to the ultra hub in the attic on a Mac book pro I can get very fast 500+mbs but in the extremities of the house maybe 50-100mbs, or 2-300 right under where the router is in the attic. I guess the signal is going through the insulation etc of the ceiling plus walls.

Anyway Vodafone kindly recently gave me a wifi booster http://help.vodafone.co.nz/app/answers/detail/a_id/30328 which I've set up in repeater mode, I've pushed it and the ultra hub to either end of the attic to hopefully create stronger coverage/signal and better speeds.

Basically it hasn't made as much difference as I'd hoped and I'm suspicious I haven't set it up right or whatever. For example my phone is 2.4ghz only, I go right by the booster, use the internet and the 2.4ghz light stays off, I'm not sure how to really determine how to know if my devices are utilising it. In repeater mode it uses the same SSID as ultra hub (which is what I want to have seamless wifi not two networks).

Anyway if anyone has any tips or tricks on know your devices are using the booster please let me know!

I did wonder if the is any difference between access point mode (connection by ethernet cable) vs repeater mode (ultra hub and booster connect via wifi). I might buy a long ethernet cable and try that next.

Thanks

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#2495501 31-May-2020 08:47

This may sound like a very stupid question, but what problem are you trying to solve? Reading your post I don't actually see a problem that needs solving - and if you do have a problem, a WiFi extender won't be your fix.

The fact you can get 100Mbps in the far reaches of the house indicates your 5GHz coverage is fine as you won't be getting this over 2.4GHz - and in the areas you can get 100Mbps over 5GHz your 2.4GHz signal strength will be even stronger but speeds will be a lot lower because it's 2.4GHz

Considering your phone is 2.4GHz only I'd see no reason why with the extender removed from the equation that you don't see 20-30Mbps over 2.4GHz WiFi (which is typical of a best effort 2.4GHz connection) across the whole house - do you not see this?

WiFi extenders work to extend a signal by acting as a repeater to have the throughput of your WiFi - if you want 500Mbps across your whole house you can't possibly get this with an extender. If you cable it via Ethernet and plug it in as an AP you will get better speeds.

If you want better 5GHz coverage you should be dropping down to 20Mhz or 40MHz channels - but you need to understand this will reduce speeds but will increase power levels and improve coverage. You can't have 80MHz channels to have the best speeds AND have extensive coverage - you can have one or the other.

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#2495507 31-May-2020 09:16

Hi, can you run an ethernet cable between the router and extender, I assume the attic is open enough to allow that, if so change it to Access point mode.

Cyril

richms

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#2495539 31-May-2020 10:21

Also the AP being in the attic will have a great view to other peoples networks, so avoid transmission when the channel is in use. Worst place for it short of being on the roof.

Richard rich.ms

wlgtraderx

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#2495595 31-May-2020 11:03

sbiddle:

This may sound like a very stupid question, but what problem are you trying to solve? Reading your post I don't actually see a problem that needs solving - and if you do have a problem, a WiFi extender won't be your fix.

The fact you can get 100Mbps in the far reaches of the house indicates your 5GHz coverage is fine as you won't be getting this over 2.4GHz - and in the areas you can get 100Mbps over 5GHz your 2.4GHz signal strength will be even stronger but speeds will be a lot lower because it's 2.4GHz

Considering your phone is 2.4GHz only I'd see no reason why with the extender removed from the equation that you don't see 20-30Mbps over 2.4GHz WiFi (which is typical of a best effort 2.4GHz connection) across the whole house - do you not see this?

WiFi extenders work to extend a signal by acting as a repeater to have the throughput of your WiFi - if you want 500Mbps across your whole house you can't possibly get this with an extender. If you cable it via Ethernet and plug it in as an AP you will get better speeds.

If you want better 5GHz coverage you should be dropping down to 20Mhz or 40MHz channels - but you need to understand this will reduce speeds but will increase power levels and improve coverage. You can't have 80MHz channels to have the best speeds AND have extensive coverage - you can have one or the other.

Thanks for the response, main "problem" trying to solve is just overcoming as much as I can my suboptimal attic modem/router placement and maximise wifi speeds throughout house. I will try access point via ethernet between the two units.

The other query I had was whether devices eg phone/laptop were actually roaming on both units or just were sticking with one, i.e was there was an easy way of seeing if were utilising both or not?

wlgtraderx

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#2495597 31-May-2020 11:04

richms:

Also the AP being in the attic will have a great view to other peoples networks, so avoid transmission when the channel is in use. Worst place for it short of being on the roof.

It looks the router is set up to automatically scan and choose channels, I presume this will avoid the worst of this problem?

wlgtraderx

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#2495599 31-May-2020 11:05

cyril7:

Hi, can you run an ethernet cable between the router and extender, I assume the attic is open enough to allow that, if so change it to Access point mode.

Cyril

Thanks I will give this a go, does this still allow me to have the same SSID and therefore will devices roam optimally between router and AP?

richms

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#2495602 31-May-2020 11:08

wlgtraderx:

richms:

Also the AP being in the attic will have a great view to other peoples networks, so avoid transmission when the channel is in use. Worst place for it short of being on the roof.

It looks the router is set up to automatically scan and choose channels, I presume this will avoid the worst of this problem?

No, because there are only 3 non overlapping to choose from, and its probably seeing transmissions from 15-20 other routers strong enough to cause it to hold off transmission. You need the AP in the same room as you away from the other networks to get good performance. Putting it in an attic is the worst thing possible if you want to use it in the house.

Also if you have metal roofing that will be causing all sorts of reflections destroying the signals quality. Multiple antennas and reconstructing it can only go so far.

Richard rich.ms

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cyril7

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#2495604 31-May-2020 11:16

Hi yes I would expect the AP mode to operate with a single SSID.

Also agree with Richard re having gear in the attic, that can cause issues or is it a habitable attic that's below the insulation line.

Cyril

nztim

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#2495686 31-May-2020 14:55

richms:

No, because there are only 3 non overlapping to choose from

the 1, 6, 11 non over lapping was for the b/g standard, with 40mhz wide channels the non overlapping channels are only two, 1 and 11

Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.

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#2495788 31-May-2020 16:40

nztim:

richms:

No, because there are only 3 non overlapping to choose from

the 1, 6, 11 non over lapping was for the b/g standard, with 40mhz wide channels the non overlapping channels are only two, 1 and 11

Those do overlap, if you run 40MHz in 2.4GHz you are in for a world of lousy thruput since the whole channel is never clear in urban areas. Moreso when idiot ISP routers decide on channel 7 40MHz so they crap over the whole middle of the band.

Richard rich.ms

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#2495877 31-May-2020 18:31

nztim:
richms:

No, because there are only 3 non overlapping to choose from

the 1, 6, 11 non over lapping was for the b/g standard, with 40mhz wide channels the non overlapping channels are only two, 1 and 11

Slightly incorrect. In NZ we allow 1-13 so non overlapping using 40MHz are 3 and 11. In the US (and other countries where they only allow 1-11 the only non overlapping 40MHz channel is 3).

But nobody sould every be running 40MHz channels on 2.4GHz unless you live in the middle of nowhere and have no neighbours. You should only use 20MHz channels.

For literally 99% of people running 40MHz channels will just impact performance and typically deliver worse performance than 20MHz channels.

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#2495892 31-May-2020 18:49

sbiddle:

nztim:

the 1, 6, 11 non over lapping was for the b/g standard, with 40mhz wide channels the non overlapping channels are only two, 1 and 11

Slightly incorrect. In NZ we allow 1-13 so non overlapping using 40MHz are 3 and 11. In the US (and other countries where they only allow 1-11 the only non overlapping 40MHz channel is 3).

But nobody sould every be running 40MHz channels on 2.4GHz unless you live in the middle of nowhere and have no neighbours. You should only use 20MHz channels.

For literally 99% of people running 40MHz channels will just impact performance and typically deliver worse performance than 20MHz channels.

Forgot we allow 1-13.... a lot of gear comes from the US so is locked to 1-11

Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.

sbiddle

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#2495896 31-May-2020 18:57

nztim:

Forgot we allow 1-13.... a lot of gear comes from the US so is locked to 1-11

And that's why 3 is the only 40MHz channel you'd ever use if you did theoretically deploy a 40MHz 2.4GHz channel - because any devices locked to the US or that didn't properly support 802.11d country code extension would could run into problems if other channels were used.

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#2495933 31-May-2020 20:39

wlgtraderx:

Hi all, I am on Vodafone HFC Max (c.900/90) Have the Vodafone ultra hub. I live in a 100 year old house and the cable comes into my attic area where the cable modem is, and so also the ultra hub router. The house is single level. This set up works fine but has always been a minor source of frustration that my wifi speeds are quite a bit below what I know is possible based on the connection. When I was next to the ultra hub in the attic on a Mac book pro I can get very fast 500+mbs but in the extremities of the house maybe 50-100mbs, or 2-300 right under where the router is in the attic. I guess the signal is going through the insulation etc of the ceiling plus walls.

I did wonder if the is any difference between access point mode (connection by ethernet cable) vs repeater mode (ultra hub and booster connect via wifi). I might buy a long ethernet cable and try that next.

Thanks

Hey

Just some thoughts.

1. Most wifi transmits better when it's about 75-125cm off the floor, in a left-right direction. You're correct that the insulation and the wood ceiling (and GIB i guess) will weaken the signal as it passes through all those layers.

The loft is the worst space to put this equipment - it gets hot and moist up there, as well as cold and dewey. Those weather extremes - but I guess you've already figurerd this out.

The ultrahub is an upright unit, meant to be used on the same level as the humans (broadly), transmitting where the devices are likely to be, floor to about 2m above the floor (a 6ft' individual). Although they can radiate upwards, they arent that great. I'm loathe to suggest tipping the unit face down - it might help - but you will be inviting dust and all matter of stuff to land in the open parts of the box.

2. Absolutely tie the repeater using an ethernet cable. Wifi to wifi backhaul, combined to wifi to devices connection all use the same wifi space, meaning half your bandwidth is gone in connection, another half gone in error correction and whats left is fighting through physical layers.

Remember, the free kit any ISP gives you is pretty cheap, so don't expect huge performance.

3. I guess you've twigged most people will suggest if you can drop the cable connection into the house somewhere and avoid the loft. Is it possible?

________

Antoniosk

wlgtraderx

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#2495951 31-May-2020 22:02

antoniosk:

wlgtraderx:

Hi all, I am on Vodafone HFC Max (c.900/90) Have the Vodafone ultra hub. I live in a 100 year old house and the cable comes into my attic area where the cable modem is, and so also the ultra hub router. The house is single level. This set up works fine but has always been a minor source of frustration that my wifi speeds are quite a bit below what I know is possible based on the connection. When I was next to the ultra hub in the attic on a Mac book pro I can get very fast 500+mbs but in the extremities of the house maybe 50-100mbs, or 2-300 right under where the router is in the attic. I guess the signal is going through the insulation etc of the ceiling plus walls.

I did wonder if the is any difference between access point mode (connection by ethernet cable) vs repeater mode (ultra hub and booster connect via wifi). I might buy a long ethernet cable and try that next.

Thanks

Hey

Just some thoughts.

1. Most wifi transmits better when it's about 75-125cm off the floor, in a left-right direction. You're correct that the insulation and the wood ceiling (and GIB i guess) will weaken the signal as it passes through all those layers.

The loft is the worst space to put this equipment - it gets hot and moist up there, as well as cold and dewey. Those weather extremes - but I guess you've already figurerd this out.

The ultrahub is an upright unit, meant to be used on the same level as the humans (broadly), transmitting where the devices are likely to be, floor to about 2m above the floor (a 6ft' individual). Although they can radiate upwards, they arent that great. I'm loathe to suggest tipping the unit face down - it might help - but you will be inviting dust and all matter of stuff to land in the open parts of the box.

2. Absolutely tie the repeater using an ethernet cable. Wifi to wifi backhaul, combined to wifi to devices connection all use the same wifi space, meaning half your bandwidth is gone in connection, another half gone in error correction and whats left is fighting through physical layers.

Remember, the free kit any ISP gives you is pretty cheap, so don't expect huge performance.

3. I guess you've twigged most people will suggest if you can drop the cable connection into the house somewhere and avoid the loft. Is it possible?

Hi thanks for the thoughtful reply. When you say facedown do you mean tip it over (i.e on its side) or full upside down (i.e mount it on its head)?

I'll give the ethernet a go and have a think about how I might be able to get the cabling to round level.

Thanks again

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