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Ge0rge

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#274449 22-Aug-2020 20:43
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I'm just far enough rural that fiber wont get here, however my olds who live just under 1km up the road should be getting it at some stage in the near future. (Was Dec 20 until last week, now it might be April 21...)

 

Unfortunately we're at the same altitude, and there's a fair bit of foliage etc between our houses on other peoples' properties - getting LoS would require a 15m+ high tower at each end I think. Luckily though, there is a hill that runs parallel to the road we're on, and an owner of property on said hill has said he's happy with me putting a repeater in the bush on his place so I can bounce a signal.

 

The leg from my olds place to the hill is around 1200m, and the leg back to my place from the hill is around 900m, so we're not talking outrageous distances.

 

Having a look on the Ubiquiti airLink site, it looks like I could do this a couple of ways:

 

One is Point to Multi-Point - a Rocket 5AC Prism Gen2 with antenna on the hill, and a couple of NanoBeams / LiteBeams at each end; or

 

A *Beam at each end, and two *Beams on the hill pointing at each property.

 

Either way will require a bit of a solar setup on the hill, as there is no other power source up there - that part I can manage without too much issue.

 

Questions I have thus far are around the best way to create the link. PtMP will need less gear, but will cost quite a bit more from what I can find - I can easily get two LiteBeams for well less than the price of an antenna for the rocket, and that's before buying the radio...

 

I'm guessing, as I haven't been able to find it mentioned anywhere, that I will need a switch of some description on the hill if I put two *Beams on a post there - I don't imagine I'd just be able to run a data cable between them, as easy as that would be.

 

I have read through a couple of good posts on people doing a similar things on GZ multiple times already, although they have only been sending the signal from point to point, not having a relay in between. 

 

Even a modest 20MHz bandwidth at 8dBm will net me 147Mbps using NanoBeams according to airLink - that's well over 100x the speed that I currently have. Even achieving 50% of that in real-world performance would be a huge leap in my connectivity.

 

 

 

Any advice is greatly appreciated, thanks.


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hio77
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  #2547820 22-Aug-2020 21:03
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Sounds quite doable. my one recommendation is to not underestimate the cost of powering such a setup though :)

 

 

 

Last thing you want to happen is have the repeator itself drop off due to batteries draining.





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Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

 

 




K8Toledo
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  #2547824 22-Aug-2020 21:13
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hio77:

 

Sounds quite doable. my one recommendation is to not underestimate the cost of powering such a setup though :)

 

 

 

Last thing you want to happen is have the repeator itself drop off due to batteries draining.

 

 

OP stole my idea. :P


Delphinus
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  #2547887 22-Aug-2020 22:19
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I would recommend 2 separate PtP links. For some reason I've experienced PtmP links slower (even for a single client).

 

Any old gbit switch between them would be fine, but I'd suggest something like https://www.gowifi.co.nz/managedpoeswitches/es-5xp.html which I believe can be powered straight from your 24vdc battery source, and then that would push the power up into your wireless devices over their ethernet connection. It has Ping Watchdog which allows you to configure it to restart a device when it stops responding to ping. Saves you bush bashing up the hill to reboot something if it locks up.




sparkz25
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  #2547904 22-Aug-2020 23:16
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I would also recommend 2 separate P2P links. I have a few out there and they work great, and I have one big solar repeater site running a few clients and currently looking at getting another one setup and installed.

 

You will definitely need to add plenty of battery capacity for the system to keep it up for if you have a few days of really crappy weather if its going to be solely solar powered, or you could use solar and wind.

 

But remember if you are going to add a lot of battery capacity you also need to be able to recharge that battery capacity.

 

I would also install some sort of monitoring device at the solar site as well so you can setup email alerts and so on but also see what is actually going on up at the site and log that information as those logs will help you down the track.

 

You will find that a lot of the ubiquiti gear will run on 12v without a problem so you can run a 12v site instead of a 24v site if needed.

 

I use the ES-10XP for powering my radios and as a switch, a TPDIN-2-WEB for monitoring, a morning star prostar PWM solar controller with EMC-1 for monitoring, with 500watts of solar and 500watts of wind turbine to keep the batteries topped up and 300AH at 24v for battery capacity.

 

https://www.gowifi.co.nz/switches/es-10xp.html

 

https://www.gowifi.co.nz/power/tpdin-monitor-web2.html

 

https://www.morningstarcorp.com/products/prostar/

 

https://www.jaycar.co.nz/500w-12-24vdc-wind-turbine/p/MG4550

 

https://static.trinasolar.com/sites/default/files/EN_TSM_PE05H_datasheet_B_2017.pdf

 

For radios you could use the Lite beam AC-GEN2, buy the 5-pack and you will have enough radios and a spare, https://www.gowifi.co.nz/outdooraccesspoints/lbe-5ac-gen2-5.html

 

 

 

There are a few people on here that have a lot of experience in this field, surely they could also pitch in and give you some suggestions as my suggestions may not be the best or what some would recommend but what i have setup works and it works well for me.


hio77
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  #2547916 23-Aug-2020 01:06
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K8Toledo:

 

OP stole my idea. :P

 

 

Down to the PTMP... which is something i wouldn't really recommend over a simple PTP....





#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

 

 


  #2547940 23-Aug-2020 08:04
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Ge0rge:

 

I'm guessing, as I haven't been able to find it mentioned anywhere, that I will need a switch of some description on the hill if I put two *Beams on a post there - I don't imagine I'd just be able to run a data cable between them, as easy as that would be.

 

 

I think running a data cable in between should be doable actually although I actually haven't attempted that set up with the exact products you're looking at. For some time I had a NanoBeam directly connected to a Unifi AP. As I was using PoE injectors for both devices the cable set up looked complex (IIRC 2x PoE injectors, 2 cables to carry PoE/data and 1 cable to carry data—all for only two devices!). In hindsight it may be better to use a switch (which is my current set up) that supports PoE.

 

Could a NanoSwitch work I wonder?

 

https://www.ui.com/accessories/nanoswitch/


cyril7
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  #2547945 23-Aug-2020 08:11
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Hi I have in the past just linked two unifi devices with just a lan cable between the two poe injectors, no switch required the nics on the radio's will sort it.

As others have said, don't do ptmp use two ptps

Cyril

 
 
 

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coffeebaron
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  #2547948 23-Aug-2020 08:28
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The Nano Station M5's have a second port, so you can set PoE pass through and power both of one cable.




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sparkz25
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  #2547949 23-Aug-2020 08:33
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Just had a brain fart, This would be a great case for one of these, https://www.gowifi.co.nz/power/sm-sp-40.html UI Link https://solar.ui.com/

 

If you are only wanting 100Mbit that would be perfect, all you need to do is connect a solar panel and a battery and you radios and thats it.

 

(100mibt is all the ports on the solar point can handle) 

 

KiwiSurfer:

 

Could a NanoSwitch work I wonder?

 

https://www.ui.com/accessories/nanoswitch/

 

 

Yes if you wanted faster than 100Mbit, you could use a Nano switch as mentioned here with this Solar point to supply power to the Nano switch then feed the radios from the Nano switch.

 

This Video from Crosstalk solutions explains  the solar point https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqyPQwA4w8Q

 

Also there is a thread here in the UI forums that uses the solar switch, it could be of interest and get some information from. https://community.ui.com/stories/Building-4-tower-sites-in-a-month-Part-2/81a69eac-19d8-4634-8721-4f3ee77e4dd8

 

 

 

 


Ge0rge

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  #2548889 24-Aug-2020 16:35
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Thanks for the extremely informative replies.

 

 

 

I was looking at the SolarPoint, but I really feel that Ubiquiti undercooked that thing - big time. The max POE power is only 17W - that's just two NanoBeams and you've maxed it out! Throw anything else at it, and you risk overloading it.  I did have a look at the post @spark25 mentioned above on the Unifi forums - while being really neat, they ended up having to use three SolarPoints in order to meet the requirements of the power draw - not to mention the PV max current is either 7A or 10A (depending on which part of the manual you are reading) - using this pretty good calculator, suggests I want a minimum of 14A from my charge controller, using Melbourne as a reference, 24v 115Ah batteries and 400W of panels - the SolarPoint is going to fall a little short in this respect.

 

The nanoSwitch however, looks like a good option to power the whole show and has enough ports to connect a Tycon web monitoring device, to be able to keep an eye on it for me. Just need to grab a 24v regulated DC-DC power supply and modify an RJ45 cable to feed the 24v to NanoSwitch - pretty close to a clone of what CrossTalk Solutions had setup initially before he went to the SolarPoint.

 

 

 

Hopefully I'm not missing something fundamental that is leading me to write off the solarPoint.


sparkz25
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  #2548912 24-Aug-2020 17:15
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Ge0rge:

 

Thanks for the extremely informative replies.

 

 

 

I was looking at the SolarPoint, but I really feel that Ubiquiti undercooked that thing - big time. The max POE power is only 17W - that's just two NanoBeams and you've maxed it out! Throw anything else at it, and you risk overloading it.  I did have a look at the post @spark25 mentioned above on the Unifi forums - while being really neat, they ended up having to use three SolarPoints in order to meet the requirements of the power draw - not to mention the PV max current is either 7A or 10A (depending on which part of the manual you are reading) - using this pretty good calculator, suggests I want a minimum of 14A from my charge controller, using Melbourne as a reference, 24v 115Ah batteries and 400W of panels - the SolarPoint is going to fall a little short in this respect.

 

The nanoSwitch however, looks like a good option to power the whole show and has enough ports to connect a Tycon web monitoring device, to be able to keep an eye on it for me. Just need to grab a 24v regulated DC-DC power supply and modify an RJ45 cable to feed the 24v to NanoSwitch - pretty close to a clone of what CrossTalk Solutions had setup initially before he went to the SolarPoint.

 

 

 

Hopefully I'm not missing something fundamental that is leading me to write off the solarPoint.

 

 

 

 

Remember that its a total of 40 watts on the total output for the solar point, that's 17w from the POE (the builtin 4 port 10/100 switch) and then a further 24 watts on the DC output, If your just powering 2 radios it would be plenty.

 

2 lite beam AC-gen 2's would draw max 7 watts each so that's a total of 14 watts max on the POE which is still bugger all, and if you lik the radios to UNMS and the solarpoint to UNMS then thats your monitoring sorted.


Ge0rge

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  #2548930 24-Aug-2020 17:59
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@sparkz25:

Ge0rge:


Thanks for the extremely informative replies.


 


I was looking at the SolarPoint, but I really feel that Ubiquiti undercooked that thing - big time. The max POE power is only 17W - that's just two NanoBeams and you've maxed it out! Throw anything else at it, and you risk overloading it.  I did have a look at the post @spark25 mentioned above on the Unifi forums - while being really neat, they ended up having to use three SolarPoints in order to meet the requirements of the power draw - not to mention the PV max current is either 7A or 10A (depending on which part of the manual you are reading) - using this pretty good calculator, suggests I want a minimum of 14A from my charge controller, using Melbourne as a reference, 24v 115Ah batteries and 400W of panels - the SolarPoint is going to fall a little short in this respect.


The nanoSwitch however, looks like a good option to power the whole show and has enough ports to connect a Tycon web monitoring device, to be able to keep an eye on it for me. Just need to grab a 24v regulated DC-DC power supply and modify an RJ45 cable to feed the 24v to NanoSwitch - pretty close to a clone of what CrossTalk Solutions had setup initially before he went to the SolarPoint.


 


Hopefully I'm not missing something fundamental that is leading me to write off the solarPoint.



 


Remember that its a total of 40 watts on the total output for the solar point, that's 17w from the POE (the builtin 4 port 10/100 switch) and then a further 24 watts on the DC output, If your just powering 2 radios it would be plenty.


2 lite beam AC-gen 2's would draw max 7 watts each so that's a total of 14 watts max on the POE which is still bugger all, and if you lik the radios to UNMS and the solarpoint to UNMS then thats your monitoring sorted.



Still a bit shy on the input current though, aren't I?

sparkz25
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  #2548996 24-Aug-2020 18:42
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Ge0rge: Still a bit shy on the input current though, aren't I?

 

You need to work out how many hours of sun you get per day, https://www.lgenergy.co.nz/solar-calculators/solar-system-output-calculator

 

You may need 2 decent sized panels for really crappy days to supply the controller.

 

Here is a full write up of the unit, solar powered camera at a gate. https://larsklint.com/farm-wifi-off-the-grid-with-ubiquiti-solar/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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