New build network - Plans & advice on Ubiquiti range

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LostBoyNZ

584 posts

Ultimate Geek

#279805 10-Nov-2020 12:25

I'm looking at what to buy for our new home build network, and it seems Ubiquiti have a good range of products.

For the wiring I've planned:

2 dual sockets in each of: home office, master bedroom and media room.
1 socket in the ceiling for a projector in the media room, and thinking of a couple more ceiling socks around the house for Wi-Fi maybe.
2 quad sockets in the living area, in the two potential places people could put the TV etc.
1 socket in the kitchen (smart speaker maybe).
2 dual sockets in the dining area.
1 socket by the door for a smart doorbell.
Some cables will run to locations around the house to be used for security cameras mounting to the soffits.

Ignoring the camera runs, that's 27 to 30 connections depending on putting more sockets in the ceiling or not for WiFi. With the cameras, I guess that's 33 to 36 connections or so.

They'll also be a HTPC / Shared Storage PC in the garage server cabinet.

Potentially having all Ubiquiti helps keep things easy to manage but I'm open to a mix or to look at anything people recommend.

We wouldn't want guests with Wi-Fi access to be able to access the HTPC / Shared Storage.
Keen for 3 or 4 10GbE ports on the switch (2 for the home office, one for the HTPC / Shared Storage).
Seems to make sense to have POE / POE+ for cameras, rather than the cameras having batteries. We'll have a UPS in the cabinet to help with any short power cuts.
Most cameras are outside but we may add a camera or two inside so it's important they be secure.

It seems like this is one possible setup:

UniFi Dream Machine Pro with Ubiquiti UniFi Switch Gen2 USW-Pro-48-POE and SPF+ 10GbE adapters.

Seems to tick all the boxes. Although the reviews of the Dream Machine Pro aren't very inspiring (in terms of software issues).

Part of another potential setup:

Unifi Security Gateway with UniFi Cloud Key Plus and then a cheap 8 port POE switch for the cameras, and other switch(es).

Cheaper, although it seems like turning on some of the more advanced security features on the gateway limits the performance.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be great :) I need to consider the Wi-Fi too, likely a Wi-Fi 6 mesh network (not a huge house though, 180 square meters single story, timber framing with internal insulation in some places).

Thanks!

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chevrolux

4962 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#2601002 10-Nov-2020 12:48

My personal thoughts is the UDM is an expensive waste of time. For years we've told people not to buy "all-in-one" devices because they don't really excel at anything in particular. But then Ubiquiti do it, and suddenly it's an amazing idea.

The USG with a Unifi PoE switch will be a good combo - wouldn't worry about the cloud key.

If you are already running a file server, consider getting something like Unraid on to it and just run the Unifi controller and Unifi Vision (or whatever they call their NVR software these days) in a container or VM. Then you have the flexibility of adding other services too down the track.

For access points, look at the Unifi nanoHD (or Inwall HD for nice pretty finish). Fantastic access points.

LostBoyNZ

584 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2601040 10-Nov-2020 13:47

Thanks, that's interesting to hear, and that the unifi cloud key plus isn't needed if I run the software on my server PC. And it would still work with their android app (seems to be called UniFi Protect)?

I can completely understand the idea of one device does everything ok but does nothing great. And given the reviews too, it sounds like I might do well to skip the UDM yeah.

About the USG, it sounds like turning on the security features really slows down the throughput. For example here where a review says if you "turn on IPS/IDS and the USG has to inspect and process every packet, which brings throughput down to around 85 Mbps." As a home user, should I worry about not turning on things like that? Not that 85 Mbps is slow by any means, but it seems slower than the fibre (speed tests aside, in the real world maybe the difference is not noticeable?). I see the USG Pro raises performance to 250 Mbps.

Thanks for the tips on the access points too, I'll check those out :)

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chevrolux

4962 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#2601054 10-Nov-2020 14:35

Personally, the only Unifi products I use are the access points. Don't really like any of their stuff. Used the cameras years ago and they were hands-down some of the worst I've ever used - certainly improved over the years and probably a great option for home users these days. Same for their routers, don't rate them that highly at all, but they are a good option for a home user who just wants a little more control of their network without having to know all that much about networking.

Yea "advanced" firewall stuff seems pretty irrelevant for the home user. If you make good decisions about network security (i.e. don't leave servers sitting wide open to the internet), realistically, what is it going to detect.

LostBoyNZ

584 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2601169 10-Nov-2020 17:26

Thanks, yeah it seems their cameras get good reviews now with a few issues several people have had such as moisture inside some lenses etc (I'd buy local so it's an easier exchange if that happened to me).

A home user who just wants a little more control of their network without having to know all that much about networking? That probably sums me up well to be honest. Ideally once it's setup I can more or less forget about it.

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Mehrts

1063 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#2601171 10-Nov-2020 17:28

From the camera point of view: The older version of the Unifi NVR software which is called "Unifi Video" is going to be unsupported from next year onwards. This means that the opportunity to run the Video software on your own hardware will be a wasted effort. That's what a lot of people loved about the product..

However, Unifi Video was replaced by "Unifi Protect", which at the moment is only supported on Ubiquiti's own hardware, such as the Cloud Key Gen 2+, the Unifi Dream Machine Pro (UDMP), or their recently released Unifi NVR.

The Cloud Key Gen 2+ also runs the network controller software, as does the UDMP. The only thing to be mindful of, is that there is only support for one hard drive in each unit (a single 2.5" in the CK, and a single 3.5" in the UDMP) Without delving into the command line side of things, at this stage, there is no way to store video files on a separate NAS or other third-party storage system.

The cameras will work with both Unifi Video and Protect, but camera firmware updates may break the video support.

If I was requiring as many switch ports as stated, then I'd personally opt for two 24 port switches, simply from a redundancy perspective. There are numerous occasions of power supplies in the Ubiquiti switches crapping out, however, this was true for the Gen 1 switches which are identified by the lack of touch-screen on the front panel, and start with a "US-xxxx" part number. The Gen 2 switches have a "USW-xxxx" part number.

Be aware that the Gen 2 switches (especially the non-pro versions) are quite limited in the total overall PoE budget (how much total PoE power can be supplied to all devices), but the Pro versions should be fine. Make sure to read the spec sheets carefully!

The level of control which is offered by the Ubiquiti Network system is great for someone who is wanting a bit more than just a basic setup. The user interface is nicely laid out, and mostly easy to navigate. Much easier than other products I've tried in the past.

LostBoyNZ

584 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2601379 10-Nov-2020 22:26

Thanks Mehrts, that's a real shame about not being able to run it on my own hardware. Not that the Cloud Key Gen 2+ is expensive, but it's nice to keep things simple.

That's good to know about the single drive in the Cloud Key Gen 2+ and UDMP too. 2 would be nice as a backup, but I suppose the camera footage wouldn't often be needed (I'd hope not at least haha) and so the chances of a drive failure at the same time you needed to record the footage is low.

Ahh maybe that's why they keep mentioning power redundancy in the product details, if the Gen 1 power supplies kept crapping out.

True about the PoE output, I've been adding up the total wattage we might use (and including a healthy buffer).

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chevrolux

4962 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#2602137 11-Nov-2020 19:16

If Ubiquiti have abandoned their "open" approach to software, there is literally no reason to use their gear.

Get a HiLook (Hikvision's off-brand) NVR and cameras and you will get better gear for less money.

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richms

28191 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2602149 11-Nov-2020 19:37

When the USG is being hammered and only able to pass 85 megabits, it also seems to really bog down for other stuff like DNS, and passing traffic between VLANs also seems to come off that lower speed it can handle in some cases.

They have a new router theyre promsing to be coming real soon now (may be in early access now? I dont bother looking since its a pain to get things from EA shipped here) that is fast like the dream machine pro, but no compolsory controller of primitave switch in it. I am waiting on that to upgrade to, since it will go nice with hyper fiber.

Richard rich.ms

chevrolux

4962 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#2602211 11-Nov-2020 20:30

Yea you could also get an $80 Mikrotik that sh1ts all over UBNT routers...

phrozenpenguin

841 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2602295 11-Nov-2020 22:49

Regarding wifi, we have a 180m2 single storey build and run two Unifi AC-Lite APs for comprehensive coverage of 5ghz. It has been rock solid - we paired it with an Edgerouter X SFP, which means one PSU powers the Edgerouter and the PoE out to the two APs, which made for a tidy setup in a limited comms cabinet (it doesn't look like you are space constrained though.

I would consider the UAP-nanoHD if you needed the extra speed, but its a step up in price. We have cabled the devices where we can.

LostBoyNZ

584 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2602370 12-Nov-2020 08:41

Thanks for the replies, and I'll checkout HiLook's cameras too, and Mikrotik's gear.

I think I'll pass on the USG yeah. It sounds like it's ideal for adsl / vdsl though.

Thanks for the tip on the Unifi AC-Lite's. The cheaper price could be good because I'd really like to upgrade to WiFi 6 at some point, we've already got a few devices that could benefit from that, and apparently the Oculus Quest 2 has WiFi 6 built-in too (although I'd be keen to know if it makes much of a real world difference to that). So maybe the AC-Lite's are good to have in the meantime.

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