22AWG Cat5E ?

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olivernz

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#279904 16-Nov-2020 11:45

Hi all

Got a question for the networking savvy here. I'm building a new house and thinking of what Ethernet cabling to put where. Current plan is to put (at least) one Cat6 and one Cat7 cable in each room with an extra Cat6 unattached as backup + lots of camera stuff and ceiling mounted Wifi, lights,.... I always joke that my ethernet cabling everywhere will add R1.2 to the insulation ;-)

In the process of researching I came across a site that said they ran cat5E for all cameras and IoT stuff because it was 22AWG and hence better for PoE than Cat6+. I have NEVER seen 22AWG cat5E cable! Or any Ethernet cabling that is 22AWG. Is that a thing? The only cat5E I know of is 24AWG and since Cat6 is 23AWG IT should be better for PoE right? Or am I getting something wrong?

And is there some formal guidance in NZ how to install network cabling in homes? Any restrictions?
Also is it worthwhile putting in flexible conduit in slab or ceiling to all rooms just for future expandabililty or is that too much? Experiences? Any don't do's?

Sorry for the barrage of questions but Google and Youtube haven't been much help so far.

Cheers
Oliver

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#2604642 16-Nov-2020 12:05

Pretty sure 24 AWG is all you need for PoE up to 100 metres, increasing the wire gauge beyond that apparently just has the effect of lowering the heating effect of the PoE voltage across the cable

I can't feel any heat at all on my 24 AWG CAT5E cables running my UniFi access points so no idea why anyone would be concerned temperature differences that small anyway

23 AWG CAT6A is already one gauge thicker than the recommended gauge for PoE, so 22 AWG CAT5E sounds like a colossal downgrade to me. Much lower cable bandwidth, no internal pair separator, increased crosstalk, no guaranteed 10 Gbit connectivity.

cyril7

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#2604662 16-Nov-2020 12:25

Hi, the standards that dicatate cat5e and cat6 dont actually state (as best I recall) what gauge wire you must use, in particular cat6 does not dictate that you must use 23 AWG over 24.

However manufactures find they meet ClassE (ie 500MHz characterisation) for cat6 cables easier if they use 23 AWG than AWG 24, as a result some manufactures infact produce compliant cat6 using AWG 24 stock, it all depends on the actual build.

I have not seen AWG 22, and from experience I suggest standard AWG 23 for cameras and IoT devices is perfectly fine. As mentioned the only reason for whoever would have suggested AWG 22 is to allow better POE power handling ability.

Cyril

olivernz

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#2604676 16-Nov-2020 12:34

As I said, never ever heard of 22AWG Ethernet cables. 23AWG is already a bit wider and firmer so how would you mange 22AWG? I think the guy just made a solid mistake. Which is odd as it was a reputable site (can't find the link right now) but thought I'd ask. I am intending just doing everything Cat6 (not cat6A as that is about as hard to install as the Cat7 stuff! The Cat7 will only go where I absolutely need it or the distances are longer than 25m). Yes, there is 24AWG Cat6 but if I have the option of 23AWG I'll just go with that. More copper more electrons ;-)

cyril7

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#2604679 16-Nov-2020 12:37

Hi, was not suggesting you install 24 AWG Cat6, simply pointing out that the performance standards dont state what gauge you must use, you can use whatever you want to meet the standard.

Why exactly do you need cat7 for runs over 25m, from my experience cat6 will do 10G well beyond 25m, infact twice that. If you really want to future proof and provide superiour performance then put some SM fibre in instead.

Cyril

olivernz

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#2605609 17-Nov-2020 16:56

I got the Cat7 relatively cheap so thought I'd do that. But i want to use Cat6 for most runs as it is easier to pull. Cat7 will probably also go for longer runs to other buildings. There I will also do SM fiber. But might pull one to the office and wherever the TV goes. any suggestions where to get SM runs from?

cyril7:

Hi, was not suggesting you install 24 AWG Cat6, simply pointing out that the performance standards dont state what gauge you must use, you can use whatever you want to meet the standard.

Why exactly do you need cat7 for runs over 25m, from my experience cat6 will do 10G well beyond 25m, infact twice that. If you really want to future proof and provide superiour performance then put some SM fibre in instead.

Cyril

Jase2985

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#2605610 17-Nov-2020 17:07

I ran 305m of cat6 throughout my house when i built the garage out the front. it wasnt too bad to pull and i ended up testing all the cables after installing the keystones and was getting 10G shielded connections over 60m.

when i attach the rest of the keystones over xmas i might connect 2 of the runs and test them too and see how far i can get with ca6a and still keep a 10G connection.

olivernz

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#2607181 19-Nov-2020 18:10

I surely won't have a cat6 run over 60m. And where I do I'll certainly also put in SM fibre. I was just curious if anyone ever heard of 22awg cat cable of any sort re PoE. But I guess that was mainly a mistake in the article or someone not knowing how awg works ;-)

I'll pull cat6 everywhere and cat7 to certain rooms. Just to be on safe side. Might do some SM fibre too but that more between buildings. This is all just to future proof nothing more.

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olivernz

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#2608648 22-Nov-2020 20:21

Ok, just noticed Cat8 is 22AWG. Must be a massive cable. Cat7 already feels thick as.

webwat

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#2608707 23-Nov-2020 00:31

Both Cat7 and Cat6A are usually 22AWG but as mentioned its not a rule. The only real advantage to having Cat7 is that it reduces heat if you are doing PoE over long distance through a hot ceiling space or a huge bundle, not usually relevant for the average house and certainly no advantage if you are only doing Gigabit speeds. It won't extend your reach at all, its still maximum 100m total including patch cords. For something like video over HDbaseT or similar technology it might help a bit, or might not. Cat6 is usually fine regardless of wire thickness.

Time to find a new industry!

olivernz

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#2609704 24-Nov-2020 11:23

Hi,

I think the gauge measurements are as follows:

Cat5E - 24AWG
Cat6 - 23AWG or 24AWG
Cat6A & Cat7 - 23AWG (always shielded SFTP or better)
Cat8 - 22AWG (always shielded)

Of course anyone can go higher AWG but I haven't seen cables like that and I definitely have not seen Cat5E 22AWG! So above is how i see it. Thanks all for the comments.

Oliver

hio77

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#2609713 24-Nov-2020 11:57

olivernz:

Hi,

I think the gauge measurements are as follows:

Cat5E - 24AWG
Cat6 - 23AWG or 24AWG
Cat6A & Cat7 - 23AWG (always shielded SFTP or better)
Cat8 - 22AWG (always shielded)

Of course anyone can go higher AWG but I haven't seen cables like that and I definitely have not seen Cat5E 22AWG! So above is how i see it. Thanks all for the comments.

Oliver

cat8 you also pay through the rear for. its insane, only really worth looking at for a bespoke usecase where you need 40gbit Copper... otherwise go fibre....

i would just run CAT6, go CAT6a if your wanting to ensure the gauge. just be ready for the extra shielding requirements when terminating :)

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

olivernz

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#2609735 24-Nov-2020 12:09

Yes, Cat8 is insane. I got Cat7 cheap and it's already a massive cable. Anything more than that would be absolutely insane to put into walls. And yes,m fiber is better in that case. I will have Cat7 going to strategic places and rest is Cat6. I'll have a think about fibre from office to server room and stuff like that but I'll probably use smurf tube (i.e. flexi hoses) so I can feed through what I need later. The house I am building is for us for the next 40y so I want a bit of future proofing ;-)

I will also have some long runs of >100m between buildings and that will all be done with SM fiber SFP(+).

One thing raised here still is an open question, do I pipe through the slab or through the roof. The roof will be a flat roof so will have little venting space and hence be quite warm. But I think in the scheme of things it probably won't matter.

Zeon

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#2609756 24-Nov-2020 12:52

Just be aware that Cat6a is quite thick cable. I have 48 patch ports in my wiring cabinet and with 6" thick framing in the wall it is in, its a squeeze to get all the cable in the wall cavity.

Speedtest 2019-10-14

Jase2985

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#2609764 24-Nov-2020 13:06

i ran 32mm conduit through my slab when i built my garage. i was able to get 5x CAT6A and 1x CAT5E through it at a distance of about 18m (through the conduit) you wouldn't really want to pull it much further than that.

I have extra cable legnth coiled up under the house so if i do want to move the position of the wall jacks i can.

here is a picture of the setup in the garage

The bunch on the left go to the house, the middle and right ones are for the network cabinet, alarm cabinet, camera's and internal garage network ports.

Sidestep

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#2609783 24-Nov-2020 14:03

olivernz:

I have NEVER seen 22AWG cat5E cable!

I have several spools of this Shielded, Cat5e, 22 AWG, 500 ft.. but in Canada so not much use to you.

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