Help in choosing and setting up APs

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Jp576

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#280093 26-Nov-2020 10:15

Hey guys just to carry on from another thread am looking to help set up a few APs at my brother's new place. It's a 2 storey house with a floor area of 330m2 (going off QV site).
I'm a noob when it comes up networking but have been doing a lot of reading regarding access points over the last few weeks and Think I'm starting to get a fair understanding of them now.
My brother's not a tech/IT person at all so won't be messing with settings or anything of the like. Mainly using Netflix, skygo etc along with a ps4 which can be connected by the wall ethernet socket i believe.
Has Ethernet wall sockets around the house with the cables all coming back to the the little cabinet in the garage where the ONT is located.
I was gonna go with the spark smart router + smart mesh unit like someone suggested on here but don't think it's gonna be suitable for his layout unless i plug the main router near kitchen which means i can't use the other Ethernet points in the house???

1 - I was looking around at the unifi APs and came across the tp link eap245 grandstream GWN7610. Tp links are about $200 atm for 1 equivalent to the unifi ap ac pro which is $286. From reviews etc I've heard tp link is fine if i won't be using the unify software features which i won't be. Is this true?
Couldn't really see much info about the grandstream unit but the specs seem impressive and comparable to the nanohd and only $160.
This 1 also has an inbuilt controller. Is that a good thing?

2 - I assume i can just plug an ap into each lan port at the back of the isp router?

3 - Do APs have issues where you would need to go into settings regularly or can you generally setup them up and leave them alone and they should run fine?

Want to try keep it on a tight budget as the main requirements are just decent wifi coverage around the house so don't really want to have to purchase seperate controllers etc if i don't have to.

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#2610995 26-Nov-2020 10:45

I would go for either

Unifi:

https://www.snappernet.co.nz/product/23031/ubiquiti-uap-flexhd-ubiquiti-uap-flexhd-4x4-mu-mimo-wave-2-80211ac-access-point

https://www.snappernet.co.nz/product/14294/ubiquiti-uap-iw-hd-unifi-ap-high-density-80211ac-wave-2-in-wall-access-point

The IW is cool because it replaced a standard face place and gives you 4 Ethernet ports 1 which is POE to power things like VOIP

Downside is your need a controller - if you wish to replace your router you could get a dream machine which acts as the controller

https://www.snappernet.co.nz/product/20958/ubiquiti-udm-unifi-dream-machine

Aruba Instant On

I really like these because they are cloud based (controlerless)

Desktop Version - https://www.arubainstanton.com/files/DS_AIO_AP11D.pdf

Note this has a limitation of only 2x2 MIMO - It also has 4 ethernet ports but I don't think there is a PoE out

Ceiling version of the same thing https://www.arubainstanton.com/files/DS_AIO_AP11.pdf

Ceiling Version with 4x4 MIMO https://www.arubainstanton.com/files/DS_AIO_AP15.pdf

All of these options will need an AC adapter or PoE Switch, the IW Unifi MUST run of PoE

Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.

xpd

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#2611003 26-Nov-2020 11:04

Just to clarify when people talk about the controller with Unifi gear - this is software-based (except for the Dream machine) and once installed, and the AP's setup, you can remove it again. But backup the config first, or its a pain trying to re-adopt the AP's to a new controller install :)

It does NOT need to be running 24/7 unless you are wanting constant monitoring and advanced features.

Gavin / xpd / FastRaccoon / Geek of Coastguard New Zealand

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chevrolux

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#2611056 26-Nov-2020 11:57

xpd:

Just to clarify when people talk about the controller with Unifi gear - this is software-based (except for the Dream machine) and once installed, and the AP's setup, you can remove it again. But backup the config first, or its a pain trying to re-adopt the AP's to a new controller install :)

It does NOT need to be running 24/7 unless you are wanting constant monitoring and advanced features.

Or you could connect it to @michaelmurfy 's controller and not worry about it!

ghettomaster

387 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2611094 26-Nov-2020 12:49

For Unifi you can set them up with the phone app and not need any controller. I know IPhone has one - presume Android does too. They are set and forget but with the app, still easy to make changes if you need to.

Unifi do make great gear. I’d look at the uap-ac-lite or uap-ac-lr as they are cheaper and all you need for residential use typically.

They come with PoE injectors so all you need to do is plug a network cable from the router / switch to the injector, another network cable to the patch panel, then a network cable from the wall outlet to the AP. No power by the AP needed. You do of course plug the injector into power and you’ll run one per AP.

Steps are:
Get two or three for that size house.
Use the supplied PoE injectors to power them.
Configure using the app.
Done.

Jp576

19 posts

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#2611260 26-Nov-2020 15:35

ghettomaster: For Unifi you can set them up with the phone app and not need any controller. I know IPhone has one - presume Android does too. They are set and forget but with the app, still easy to make changes if you need to.

Unifi do make great gear. I’d look at the uap-ac-lite or uap-ac-lr as they are cheaper and all you need for residential use typically.

They come with PoE injectors so all you need to do is plug a network cable from the router / switch to the injector, another network cable to the patch panel, then a network cable from the wall outlet to the AP. No power by the AP needed. You do of course plug the injector into power and you’ll run one per AP.

Steps are:
Get two or three for that size house.
Use the supplied PoE injectors to power them.
Configure using the app.
Done.

Awesome, sounds simple enough.
Must be a reason everyone is suggesting Unifi, probably a good idea to stick with that.

Anyone had any experience with this
https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/NAPGSM7630/Grandstream-GWN7630-MU-MIMO-Dual-Band-4x44-AC2033

Seems like awesome specs for the price. Will most likely stick to unifi unless someone has had actual first hand experience with the above ap.

Will be mostly phones, Chromebooks and smart tvs connecting to the wifi so uap ac lite or lr aps should be sufficient?

nztim

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#2611282 26-Nov-2020 16:24

Jp576:

Anyone had any experience with this
https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/NAPGSM7630/Grandstream-GWN7630-MU-MIMO-Dual-Band-4x44-AC2033

Seems very cheap for what it is, I would question its quality, I have done a bit with Grandstream VOIP phones and they just seem tinny and cheap

never tried it though - I am a Unifi or Aruba fan personally

Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.

cyril7

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#2611301 26-Nov-2020 17:13

Hi, just be aware that the phone app can only setup one UniFi AP per instance, if you want to run multiple as a single network (which is recommended) then you need to use the controller, as others have said, michaelmurfy has a controller that you can use if you want a full but painless UniFi experience.

As for the Grandstreams, I ran into some at a site recently, it seems a very good a capable solution, and compared to UniFi offers true wireless control therefore results in better roaming etc.

Cyril

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Jp576

19 posts

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#2611310 26-Nov-2020 17:45

cyril7:
Hi, just be aware that the phone app can only setup one UniFi AP per instance, if you want to run multiple as a single network (which is recommended) then you need to use the controller, as others have said, michaelmurfy has a controller that you can use if you want a full but painless UniFi experience.

As for the Grandstreams, I ran into some at a site recently, it seems a very good a capable solution, and compared to UniFi offers true wireless control therefore results in better roaming etc.

Cyril

The physical controller or i can install the controller software on a windows laptop?

nztim

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#2611317 26-Nov-2020 18:01

Jp576:
cyril7:
Hi, just be aware that the phone app can only setup one UniFi AP per instance, if you want to run multiple as a single network (which is recommended) then you need to use the controller, as others have said, michaelmurfy has a controller that you can use if you want a full but painless UniFi experience.

As for the Grandstreams, I ran into some at a site recently, it seems a very good a capable solution, and compared to UniFi offers true wireless control therefore results in better roaming etc.

Cyril

The physical controller or i can install the controller software on a windows laptop?

Controller can run on windows/linux/cloud key/dream machine

Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.

PJ48

295 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2611333 26-Nov-2020 18:49

There is no reason why you can't set up the Spark Smart modem and Mesh units as a totally set and forget solution for a non-tech person like your brother, that will likely be a lot cheaper than all the other gear.

The central cabinet with the ONT hopefully has a patch panel? You will also need a simple unmanaged network switch. Choose a reasonably central location in the house where you want to put the smart modem that has two ethernet data ports. Connect the ethernet from the ONT to the patch panel that connects to one of those data outlets. That then connects to the WAN port on the Smart modem. Connect one of the LAN ports on the Smart modem into the other data outlet that then "returns" the network back to the central cabinet patch panel. That then feeds into the unmanaged switch that all the other network outlet in the house connect to. You can then put one or two Mesh units anywhere around the house that you have live data outlets to provide seamless coverage.

If you don't have a patch panel, but just terminated patch cables, you can still do it by connecting the "outgoing" cable direct to the ONT, and the "return cable" direct to the unmanaged switch. All the other cables then connect to the switch.

You will end up with a cheap wired rather than wireless Mesh solution

snnet

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#2611356 26-Nov-2020 19:37

Grandstream APs are rock solid.

Jp576

19 posts

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#2611358 26-Nov-2020 19:44

PJ48:

There is no reason why you can't set up the Spark Smart modem and Mesh units as a totally set and forget solution for a non-tech person like your brother, that will likely be a lot cheaper than all the other gear.

The central cabinet with the ONT hopefully has a patch panel? You will also need a simple unmanaged network switch. Choose a reasonably central location in the house where you want to put the smart modem that has two ethernet data ports. Connect the ethernet from the ONT to the patch panel that connects to one of those data outlets. That then connects to the WAN port on the Smart modem. Connect one of the LAN ports on the Smart modem into the other data outlet that then "returns" the network back to the central cabinet patch panel. That then feeds into the unmanaged switch that all the other network outlet in the house connect to. You can then put one or two Mesh units anywhere around the house that you have live data outlets to provide seamless coverage.

If you don't have a patch panel, but just terminated patch cables, you can still do it by connecting the "outgoing" cable direct to the ONT, and the "return cable" direct to the unmanaged switch. All the other cables then connect to the switch.

You will end up with a cheap wired rather than wireless Mesh solution

No patch panel unfortunately. I've got a photo but couldn't upload. Basically a bunch of Ethernet cables sticking out of the wall with with 1 connected to the ont which goes to the kitchen outlet where the router is connected. From my quick look around i didn't notice any outlets with 2 Ethernet data points which from my understanding means, have to put the router in the garage to connect the other Ethernet cables.
Also brother has just told me he has signed up fibre with contact energy so i guess that means spark smart modem and mesh is out of the question?

Jp576

19 posts

Geek

#2611431 26-Nov-2020 21:12

Just realised pbtech has no stock of Grandstream for a few weeks so might just go unifi.
Is there much difference between unifi nanohd and flex HD? Also could i possibly get away with 1 access point or will 2 be necessary?

What's the better option, 2 cheaper weaker aps i.e 2x uap ac lite vs 1 stronger more expensive ap like nanohd.
Or 2 tp link eap245 for 400 vs 1 ubiquity nanohd for 300+?

fe31nz

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#2611495 27-Nov-2020 01:19

Is there much difference between unifi nanohd and flex HD?

The NanoHD is a saucer shaped ceiling mount unit, with a radiation pattern that is mostly downwards. The FlexHD is a small tubular shape device that you just sit on top of something in a convenient place. Its radiation pattern is mostly horizontally outwards. They are very similar units in most other respects - they are basically the same device. I have a FlexHD and love it - no need to get ceiling Ethernet cabling done and it covers my whole (small) house nicely, including most of the 1/4 acre section outside as well. It detects and logs the WiFi APs in the ambulances going past on our street 60 metres away as well.

Jp576

19 posts

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#2612152 28-Nov-2020 10:15

Thanks to everyone for the advice. Got another question semi related and for my own personal use.
If i plug in a hard drive to the fritzbox router and add on an ap I'm guessing i can't access the hd from ap wifi network?

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